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December Medium/Long Range Discussion


yoda
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22 minutes ago, Maestrobjwa said:

Ah ha...my mom has told me about this, and I was about to mention it as a possible exception...I was born two days before that (Dec 24th), and she tells me she stayed in the hospital an extra day because of it, lol (so literally my first time outside there was snow on the ground! :D

Where did you look up that record? Or did you just happen to remember?

Those were from memory.  But if you really want to spend some time, this site has climate records from thousands of stations in the US:

Utah MAPS - Utah Climate Center (usu.edu) 

1. find a station (you can enter a town and a map will show you the stations on record)

2. customize your report (make sure to select English, unless you want the metric conversion)

3. download an Excel file (they will ask for an email, but reports are generated quickly.)

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Btw there is a chance (which is typical) we are rushing this. It’s possible we get one of these waves in the next 13 days to hit...but it’s also true we usually do better as blocking regimes relax or break down. The guidance (all 3 majors) are building the -AO/NAO and even improving the pac some (which is linked) into early January.  And given the evidence right now there is no reason to think it’s a fantasy. The AO and NAO have not been hostile this year. There is a chance our best window comes in January. 

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3 minutes ago, WxUSAF said:

I would say 240hrs is pretty damn close.  Trough axis is a little farther west, but otherwise pretty good match.  

ecmwf-ens_z500a_nhem_11.png

Yes, it’s pretty good, workable at least, straight through. I just picked one panel. It’s also been backing off on the AK trough the last few runs which would help.  It also, like the GEFS and GEPS, is retrograding the NAO block more and more into January. If the looks the globals are teasing are correct we should snow somewhere in the next 2-3 weeks. Problem is way too many SWs in the flow to pick out any one threat as THE ONE yet. 

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4 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Yes, it’s pretty good, workable at least, straight through. I just picked one panel. It’s also been backing off on the AK trough the last few runs which would help.  It also, like the GEFS and GEPS, is retrograding the NAO block more and more into January. If the looks the globals are teasing are correct we should snow somewhere in the next 2-3 weeks. Problem is way too many SWs in the flow to pick out any one threat as THE ONE yet. 

Speaking of January, 12z EPS gets VERY close to a 10mb wind reversal in the Strat just after New Years, and apparently the latest Euro monthly keeps things rockin' through most of January at least.  

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45 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Yes, it’s pretty good, workable at least, straight through. I just picked one panel. It’s also been backing off on the AK trough the last few runs which would help.  It also, like the GEFS and GEPS, is retrograding the NAO block more and more into January. If the looks the globals are teasing are correct we should snow somewhere in the next 2-3 weeks. Problem is way too many SWs in the flow to pick out any one threat as THE ONE yet. 

Some may be wondering why the snowfall mean is pretty standard climo given AO/NAO domain and IMO, this may be the reason...so many s/ws so models may be having a hard time keying in on which one may be the biggest threat.  Given the shtty looks we endured all winter last year, its nice to see NAM help which looks to have serious staying power.  The potential is there and thats all we can ask for at this point.

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2 minutes ago, nj2va said:

Some may be wondering why the snowfall mean is pretty standard climo given AO/NAO domain and IMO, this may be the reason...so many s/ws so models may be having a hard time keying in on which one may be the biggest threat.  Given the shtty looks we endured all winter last year, its nice to see NAM help which looks to have serious staying power.  The potential is there and thats all we can ask for at this point.

This kind of sums it up....no idea which one could be the 1.

B4AA340C-1F21-4B9E-8B73-43D01FCCA8F5.png

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4 minutes ago, nj2va said:

Some may be wondering why the snowfall mean is pretty standard climo given AO/NAO domain and IMO, this may be the reason...so many s/ws so models may be having a hard time keying in on which one may be the biggest threat.  Given the shtty looks we endured all winter last year, its nice to see NAM help which looks to have serious staying power.  The potential is there and thats all we can ask for at this point.

I think that’s part of it. I also think guidance has been running too warm in general in the long range. The last 7 days was supposed to be a torch from long range. Guidance has a lot of good track rain storms in the 7-15 day period. It’s not like the snow mean is super high north of us. Most of that up there is from lake effect and a clipper or two. The storm track looks good.  I have a feeling it will trend colder if the storm track is across the south. 

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11 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

There is EVERY indication this will be a -AO winter. 

Wow! After what we had to deal with last winter...this is music to all of our ears! What an awesome 180 from the news ya had to deliver a year ago, lol Yes, I'm sure you'll say nothing is ever automatic...but just knowing that our snow chances improve--and with something that has been so elusive (the -AO) is very encouraging!

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 I don't put much stock in the weeklies, but looking a week or so beyond the run they initialize on  gives us a rough idea of how things will roll forward. Mid Jan still has a favorable HL look on today's edition. Pretty much a continuation of what we are seeing on the LR means. The -NAO is more west based from day 15 forward to this timeframe.

1610668800-gMaLQPbauVE.png

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2 minutes ago, CAPE said:

 I Don't put much stock in the weeklies, but looking a week or so beyond the run they initialize on  gives us a rough idea of how things will roll forward. Mid Jan still has a favorable HL look on today's edition. Pretty much a continuation of what we are seeing on the LR means. The -NAO is more west based from day 15 forward. to this timeframe.

1610668800-gMaLQPbauVE.png

It looks like we might finally time up a pretty good pattern with our prime snow climo window. It’s been forever since we did that. 
I’m trying to be guarded. And expectations should be kept realistic. It is still a Nina. We’ve had -AO/NAO Nina’s before where we did ok but not GREAT.  If 1996 happens awesome but I’d set the bar more realistically.  Let’s just get a warning event or two into the urban corridor then sprinkle in some more minor snows here or there. Imo that’s a realistic bar if we get an extended -NAM state during prime climo. 

ETA:  start to see signs the WPO vortex wants to anchor further west and allow a pna ridge or if the PV really gets obliterated and we see indications the AO will tank through to spring and that’s when we might start to dream BIGGER...for now in ecstatic simply to see real signs we should avoid a total dud this year. 

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