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March Mid/Long Range Discussion 2


Cobalt

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13 minutes ago, showmethesnow said:

DC stayed roughly the same but everywhere else we saw a decrease. 00Z  EPS was a little more aggressive with our WED storm so maybe you are seeing that as well?

eta: At least from looking at Weatherbells 10:1 maps.

Yeah, I deleted my post. I was comparing it to the 12z run from two days ago as I was toggling the runs on my phone. Clearly no coffee yet!

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3 hours ago, Ji said:

Euro actually starts storm at 120 hours. We will be in nam range by tuesdayeab16921ba48e959709bf4dab70f20f4.jpg

 I know a week is a long lead... But it is a slow mover that gets it's act together about 4- 5 days from now. 

This one feels right

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3 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

Its a legit question....... Not trying to be negative. It looks like the most amazing thing I've seen in a long time. I am just questioning the "ifs". Snowquester is still a recent memory and a valid concern IMO.  I think that is fair.

 

You don't need to try.  Negative seems to be your natural state. You're like the Eeyore of this forum. 

Youre not wrong that the time of year will exact a price. If you get 10" it probably would have been 20" in Jan. We all know that. But I said the other day "the first person that complains about only getting 10" in March should be hit with the stupid stick". 

You realize your point wouldnt even matter. In 2016 you complained "it was only one storm". You're only happy in those rare white elk sighting type winters like 1996, 2003, @2010 when we get an HECS and multiple significant snows. The other 90% of the time your going to be complaining.

Youre like JI without any of his knowledge or redeeming qualities  

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3 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

You don't need to try.  Negative seems to be your natural state. You're like the Eeyore of this forum. 

Youre not wrong that the time of year will exact a price. If you get 10" it probably would have been 20" in Jan. We all know that. But I said the other day "the first person that complains about only getting 10" in March should be hit with the stupid stick". 

You realize your point wouldnt even matter. In 2016 you complained "it was only one storm". You're only happy in those rare white elk sighting type winters like 1996, 2003, @2010 when we get an HECS and multiple significant snows. The other 90% of the time your going to be complaining.

Youre like JI without any of his knowledge or redeeming qualities  

 

My question and concern is legit. Wish you could have just replied to it instead of a whole thing/insults.  I want to keep this thread on topic

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I am in awe at what I just read with agreement between GFS and Euro at this lead. Epic runs. Just sick.

And people are still complaining because it is not January... Like we can't get huge storms in March for some reason.

Just Push yo' chips into the middle and let it ride without complaining. This is our last shot before you are drinking martinis on the deck in shorts soaking in a perfect tan with SPF 1000 lathered onto your make believe six packs.

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4 minutes ago, Ralph Wiggum said:
45 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:
Looking at the 6Z GFS, I am in tears that this had to come about in March and not Jan or Feb. Tears! This would have been a HECS.
Maybe we still score something, but where is our cold air source?

Isnt widespread 1-2' in March still historic?

Without question. But I think extreme caution is needed on that idea. Which again, is why I had a question......

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8 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

Without question. But I think extreme caution is needed on that idea. Which again, is why I had a question......

It looks plenty cold enough if the storm tracks south of us. The blocking has done its job and a trough digs into the east. Need heavy precip to overcome radiation and surface temps in march and need the storm to track south of us so it doesn't press the boundary to the north. But all guidance shows plenty of cold air to support a storm if those things come together.

 But you only threw that in at the end of your paragraph of  you being you to fall back on something legitimate.   You have every right to be a deb and act the heel. But then don't complain when you get called out as a deb and a heel. 

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11 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

It looks plenty cold enough if the storm tracks south of us. The blocking has done its job and a trough digs into the east. Need heavy precip to overcome radiation and surface temps in march and need the storm to track south of us so it doesn't press the boundary to the north. But all guidance shows plenty of cold air to support a storm if those things come together.

 But you only threw that in at the end of your paragraph of  you being you to fall back on something legitimate.   You have every right to be a deb and act the heel. But then don't complain when you get called out as a deb and a heel. 

Ok, thanks!

A lot of people on here are saying negative stuff, like it could change next run, etc. I was just saying sucks this wasn't in Jan or Feb. Believe me even if we got 5 inches out of this, there wouldn't be no complaints here. Heck 3 inches.......

I just think sometimes expectations need to be put in perspective. The runs are amazing. Amazing. No question. But sometimes some let an amazing suite get them too excited, and then sometimes comes the big letdown. Its happened to me soooo many times. Its happened to everyone.  I am just trying to keep myself on an even keel.

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39 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

Without question. But I think extreme caution is needed on that idea. Which again, is why I had a question......

Dude - it's a week out. We all know extreme caution is needed. Just let people enjoy a nice model run at the end of a bad winter.

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Ok, thanks!
A lot of people on here are saying negative stuff, like it could change next run, etc. I was just saying sucks this wasn't in Jan or Feb. Believe me even if we got 5 inches out of this, there wouldn't be no complaints here. Heck 3 inches.......
I just think sometimes expectations need to be put in perspective. The runs are amazing. Amazing. No question. But sometimes some let an amazing suite get them too excited, and then sometimes comes the big letdown. Its happened to me soooo many times. Its happened to everyone.  I am just trying to keep myself on an even keel.
Yeah, agreed about how runs could change. But your debbie downer tone came from you saying it sucks this isnt January and nowhere did I see any mention of this being one run and it could change like how you presented your defense. Anyway, the overall pattern looks really good and thats what we have for now.
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18 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

 

I just think sometimes expectations need to be put in perspective.

I don't think I've seen a single post with flawed perspective. We all know it's late season. We all know who has favorable and less favorable climo. We all know it's not going to be a cold smoke storm if it happens. We all know it's still in the long range.

The expectations tone is right on from what I see. It seems to me like you're struggling with expectations not in YOUR perspective though. Think about that for a minute. 

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This clearly looks to be the most promising shot we've had, and I like that it matches up with the teleconnections since it's at the end of a pattern change. Snow ratios and rain/snow line will obviously be a concern, but I'm not even going to get worried about that stuff this far out. Just glad both major models have the same general idea on the storm. I'd like to see this Tuesday/Wednesday storm clear the deck before looking too seriously into the details.

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Well I'll be damned - the 500 maps are a thing of beauty!!!  I don't know that you could draw up a GFS/EURO combination at this lead much better than this.  Definitely has the feel of the typical blocked stemwinders that lock in early for our region.   Looking forward to tracking this one til the end.  It's a hail mary to save winter, and tracking these is so much fun... all typical caveats apply for a long lead storm, but it's nice to see one last run of winter excitement before the cherry blossoms are the primary topic of conversation.

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30 minutes ago, Mdecoy said:

Ok, thanks!

A lot of people on here are saying negative stuff, like it could change next run, etc. I was just saying sucks this wasn't in Jan or Feb. Believe me even if we got 5 inches out of this, there wouldn't be no complaints here. Heck 3 inches.......

I just think sometimes expectations need to be put in perspective. The runs are amazing. Amazing. No question. But sometimes some let an amazing suite get them too excited, and then sometimes comes the big letdown. Its happened to me soooo many times. Its happened to everyone.  I am just trying to keep myself on an even keel.

We are all grateful to have you around to keep us in check.

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3 minutes ago, supernovasky said:

We've got both of the big operational models on board. I'm excited. The only thing I'd love to see is the GEFS + EPS get on board as well. Both have some decent hits but the operational model would be the best model even in each of the ensembles for us.

At this range they are going to have some spread...and that spread is going to hurt the mean a LOT.  Plus add in the marginal temperature issue given the time of year and the lower resolution of the GEFS is going to struggle with that.  "IF" this is the real deal we should start to see a steady uptick in the means soon as group think takes over. We are on the edge of that right now.  Usually they enter that stage inside day 7.  There are some massive hits on the ensembles.  I saw a few EPS members last night that dropped the hammer.  The GEFS members seem to be having temperature issues...a few absolute qpf bombs but only light accumulations...the lower resolution of those might be an issue there.  Or they just think it will be warmer.  But that is the kind of detail I will trust the higher res ops with and they all show enough cold to make this work IF...yea I know huge if...the storm comes together with enough amplitude and a good track.  I am not too concerned with the ensembles yet.  If they continue to show a lot of spread in another day or two I will be more worried. 

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1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

At this range they are going to have some spread...and that spread is going to hurt the mean a LOT.  Plus add in the marginal temperature issue given the time of year and the lower resolution of the GEFS is going to struggle with that.  "IF" this is the real deal we should start to see a steady uptick in the means soon as group think takes over. We are on the edge of that right now.  Usually they enter that stage inside day 7.  There are some massive hits on the ensembles.  I saw a few EPS members last night that dropped the hammer.  The GEFS members seem to be having temperature issues...a few absolute qpf bombs but only light accumulations...the lower resolution of those might be an issue there.  Or they just think it will be warmer.  But that is the kind of detail I will trust the higher res ops with and they all show enough cold to make this work IF...yea I know huge if...the storm comes together with enough amplitude and a good track.  I am not too concerned with the ensembles yet.  If they continue to show a lot of spread in another day or two I will be more worried. 

Well, the only reason I even bring it up, is that I've heard that people around here trust the ensembles long range and the operational models medium and short range. I've been looking at the members and yeah, the spread is pretty high with some shutouts and some knock outs. I think this is the first major storm I've been able to track since moving here that shows a direct hit to me only 7 days out. I may be a little off by that, but this is definitely the first one where the operational models all showed the same thing.

 

I know for tropical, I always sort of treated the operational as the most likely scenario with the ensembles as the "spread"/"error cone". If I treated it the same way here, I feel pretty dang good about getting SOMETHING, and am just F5-ing weatherbell every time we get a new model drop to make sure the trends stay good :)

 

 

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Hah... my only "complaint" about this is that it's still a week away and not < 3 days. What a great run.

Maybe it's too early to worry about surface temps, but if we assume that they're correct and it's 34 at the height of the storm, wouldn't that be an issue? I know March 1958 had surface temps a few degrees above freezing, and there was a huge difference in totals based on elevation. Some parts of Baltimore city had 8" while other areas had 20"+.

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Something I noticed going back through the last 5 days of GFS runs... this threat really did show up very early on.  Something resembling this general outcome has been there on 90% of the runs from 5 days ago.  Some cut.  Some suppressed.  But the idea of a major east coast amplification as the block breaks down was there every run. 

Another thing...and this speaks to how loaded the pattern is, this end result or something close too it came about even with vastly different timing and initial location of the northern stream vorts diving out of Canada.  And in a few runs a storm still resulted even from a completely different vort.  That is why the timing has changed.  There was one run in particular where the vort that is being keyed on right now missed the boat and a completely different vort dove in next and bombed out anyways. 

This is why we see so many big storms from this general configuration of the NAO, 50/50, PNA, and EPO.  It creates a window where we have so much wiggle room and aren't reliant on perfect timing of vorts.  So many different players from run to run and they still end the same with an amped up storm along the east coast. 

It's also why we usually see these things at the end of patterns and big warm ups after.  The EPO part (a trough just off the west coast up into Alaska) helps pump a PNA ridge where we want it across the Rockies and it opens a great window...but its also not sustainable because after a few days it floods the CONUS with pacific air and then we warm up. 

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Temp is one thing I worry a little less about for my neck of the woods. I'm learning my temps in Gaithersburg bust low all the time. But for DC, yeah, surface temps may end up mattering a little at the beginning... but with a bomb this big I can't imagine it shaving off more than a couple inches.

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