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Feb Long Range Discussion (Day 3 and beyond) - MERGED


WinterWxLuvr
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11 minutes ago, losetoa6 said:

Technically day 4 I'd think . 1st flakes or ice :yikes:

By within 80- 84  hours per most guidance but good to see the interest regardless. 

That winter storm threat map is totally geared east to west.  This seems to be a sagging front that where it sets up will determine the outcome.  The focus is more south to north.  The threat should be higher in BWI than CHO.  

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That winter storm threat map is totally geared east to west.  This seems to be a sagging front that where it sets up will determine the outcome.  The focus is more south to north.  The threat should be higher in BWI than CHO.  

Hey, screw you too guy...

/s

For real, that map is worthless more than half the time. Needs to be much more customizable.
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32 minutes ago, Eskimo Joe said:

100% Agree. Anyone south of Mason-Dixon expecting 100% cold powder from this is out to lunch.

Anyone south of the Mason-Dixon making declarative statements about people who are expecting 100% cold powder from this as out to lunch from a storm 3 days away are out to lunch.

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45 minutes ago, losetoa6 said:
144 Eps looks interesting for sure ...and its after the winter storm Wed-fri :popcorn:
 
ecmwf-ensemble-avg-conus-mslp_with_low_locs-3239200.thumb.png.021875453576b04a27a96b2849ff5d13.png


More stout CAD signal during that time too. The GEFS has way more of a signal for precip during that time, but that’s probably because it has a few more members that follow their Op brother in trying to pump a ridge and having that storm ride that boundary. Seems like that’s been a bit of a bias with the Ops and ensembles this past week, so I’d imagine that the TPV taking its sweet time to descend into the US (and also having it be less consolidated along the western edge) has certainly helped potentially put us on the winning side of the boundary. Exciting times ahead.


.

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5 minutes ago, Weather Will said:

WB 18Z, some nice 6 day hits; but also some duds; percentages still favorable especially northern half of DMV for snowfall.  These maps don’t show the ice potential.  

FD3F83DF-C997-4251-BD94-324882A28011.png

818B6287-C430-4B0B-80D7-6C9B9F1F524B.png

Like you said, these don't show the ice potential. Interestingly, a lot of the "misses" are instead, crazy ice events.

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4 hours ago, CAPE said:

2010-11 had it at least early. Most people make reference to Jan 1996, but storms like that are pretty rare around here in a Nina. I am fine with the reality that the likely path to a decent outcome with a setup like this is by getting hit by multiple smaller events. Everyone can root for what they want and set "bars" ofc lol. Wont make any difference in the end.

I remembered years ago in the fall of an impending Nina (I think it was 2016-17) I did some seasonal research and was shocked to find that what makes a Nina so terrible isn’t that it mutes an NAO. It’s that we suck monkey nuts and get NO snow unless we get a -NAO and since those are exceedingly rare since the 80s... 

So I went back and found my files and updated them with the last few years. These are the actual splits for every -NAO month since 1990 at BWI.  I hate using DCA.  It’s depressing and I do think BWI is more representative of most in the 95 corridor.  

December 

La Niña -NAO avg snow 2.2”  17% above avg

Non Nina -NAO Avg snow 6.1. 40% above avg 

so yes in December a Nina mutes the NAO. So this years challenged start despite a -NAO in hindsight should have been expected 

but get a load of this...

January

Nina -NAO avg 15.9” 67% above avg

Non Nina -NAO AVG 5.6” 50% above avg

February 

nina -NAO avg 16.1” 100% above avg

non Nina -NAO avg 11.5” 50% above avg

March 

nina -NAO avg 3.6” 50% above avg

non Nina -NAO avg 1.0” 25% above avg

So in January to March our mean snowfall with a -NAO is actually HIGHER in a Nina then non Nina months and our chances of having an above avg snowfall month is higher in a -NAO Nina. 

The reason Nina’s suck is actually because a -NAO is pretty rare and they are horrid without one.  When I did my warning event snowfall study I don’t think there was a single Nina one in the whole 70 year study without a -NAO!  We simply do not snow much without a -NAO in a Nina. But the truth is a -NAO seems to have the same effect, and maybe even better, in a Nina as in other enso states. 

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5 minutes ago, losetoa6 said:

144 Eps looks interesting for sure ...and its after the winter storm Wed-fri :popcorn:

 

ecmwf-ensemble-avg-conus-mslp_with_low_locs-3239200.png

I've had my eyes on that time period...why? Solid cold air...precipitation appears to be nearby...and it would be PD/VD weekend :lol: Haven't had that combo in awhile...will be interesting to see if this develops!

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I remembered years ago in the fall of an impending Nina (I think it was 2016-17) I did some seasonal research and was shocked to find that what makes a Nina so terrible isn’t that it mutes an NAO. It’s that we suck monkey nuts and get NO snow unless we get a -NAO and since those are exceedingly rare since the 80s... 
So I went back and found my files and updated them with the last few years. These are the actual splits for every -NAO month since 1990 at BWI.  I hate using DCA.  It’s depressing and I do think BWI is more representative of most in the 95 corridor.  
December 
La Niña -NAO avg snow 2.2”  17% above avg
Non Nina -NAO Avg snow 6.1. 40% above avg 
so yes in December a Nina mutes the NAO. So this years challenged start despite a -NAO in hindsight should have been expected 
but get a load of this...
January
Nina -NAO avg 15.9” 67% above avg
Non Nina -NAO AVG 5.6” 50% above avg
February 
nina -NAO avg 16.1” 100% above avg
non Nina -NAO avg 11.5” 50% above avg
March 
nina -NAO avg 3.6” 50% above avg
non Nina -NAO avg 1.0” 25% above avg
So in January to March our mean snowfall with a -NAO is actually HIGHER in a Nina then non Nina months and our chances of having an above avg snowfall month is higher in a -NAO Nina. 
The reason Nina’s suck is actually because a -NAO is pretty rare and they are horrid without one.  When I did my warning event snowfall study I don’t think there was a single Nina one in the whole 70 year study without a -NAO!  We simply do not snow much without a -NAO in a Nina. But the truth is a -NAO seems to have the same effect, and maybe even better, in a Nina as in other enso states. 
If someone could figure out how to predict blocking winters....$$$
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