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December Medium/Long Range Discussion


yoda
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2 minutes ago, nj2va said:

Not saying this winter is going to be a blockbuster by any means but at least so far, its vastly different than last year in that we at least have workable looks.

Better looks, but same results so far. It's super early though. The next few weeks will be telling. 

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4 minutes ago, nj2va said:

Not saying this winter is going to be a blockbuster by any means but at least so far, its vastly different than last year in that we at least have workable looks.

The NAO and AO are trending the exact opposite way from this time last year.  That’s one way to offset hostile pacific forcing. 

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3 minutes ago, CAPE said:

Better looks, but same results so far. It's super early though. The next few weeks will be telling. 

Early to mid December is really not a good time to try to rely on the Atlantic to offset the pac. When I broke down all our snows that was rarely  how we got our December snowfalls. We really need the pac to cooperate early. But imo if we can keep this general idea rolling as we head later in Dec or better into January and February it should work out a few times

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2 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

The NAO and AO are trending the exact opposite way from this time last year.  That’s one way to offset hostile pacific forcing. 

Run the GEFS trend function on that timeframe for the last few days and watch the NAO ridge push in and lower heights along the east coast. 

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2 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Early to mid December is really not a good time to try to rely on the Atlantic to offset the pac. When I broke down all our snows that was rarely  how we got our December snowfalls. We really need the pac to cooperate early. But imo if we can keep this general idea rolling as we head later in Dec or better into January and February it should work out a few times

Agreed. December 2005 and 2009 were exceptions in this regard. 

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1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

Early to mid December is really not a good time to try to rely on the Atlantic to offset the pac. When I broke down all our snows that was rarely  how we got our December snowfalls. We really need the pac to cooperate early. But imo if we can keep this general idea rolling into January and February it should work out a few times

I am generally of the belief that we ultimately need some decent PAC periods to have success this winter. I keep saying it, but I have more faith in a favorable EPO period than a blockbuster NA saving us from a persistently crappy Pacific.

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Just now, psuhoffman said:

Early to mid December is really not a good time to try to rely on the Atlantic to offset the pac. When I broke down all our snows that was rarely  how we got our December snowfalls. We really need the pac to cooperate early. But imo if we can keep this general idea rolling into January and February it should work out a few times

^This. We had pretty much 2 epic winters in a row (13-14, 14-15) with Pacific cooperation (-EPO) and zero AO and NAO cooperation. Why? Because everything is moving west to east on our side of the hemisphere. When you have garbage coming in from the PAC side, you are screwed even with a good AO/NAO under a latitude of about central New England, all it’s doing is trapping the garbage coming off the Pacific....

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1 hour ago, SnowLover22 said:

GFS D12 is interesting. All caveats apply of course but this is a nice H5 setup. 

 

gfs_z500_vort_us_42-2.thumb.png.486b0462c7a596a187930e5912645036.png

This is the time frame I mentioned couple days ago. It’s interesting to me because of the storm prior to this (15/17th) seems to consistently be there run-to-run. Making for some blocking. However, the ridge out west is all over the place each model run and is super key to this recipe coming together.

I think the odds are That the ridge out west flattens out and this cuts. But there’s a chance if we can get inside the weekend and it’s still in some form on the models.

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2 minutes ago, CAPE said:

I am generally of the belief that we ultimately need some decent PAC periods to have success this winter. I keep saying it, but I have more faith in a favorable EPO period than a blockbuster NA saving us from a persistently crappy Pacific.

Agreed. The Pacific sets up the incoming trajectory. If it's coming from a bad angle, we're kinda cooked from the start.

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