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January Mid/long Range Winter Discussion


Wow

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UKMET is about 6 hours faster than  the GFS...could be a good thing.

 

Decent runs of the GFS/UKMET tonight, boys. Let's hope the EURO/Para keeps it alive as it did at 12z today. So technically, 3 models show the threat *improving* so far (4 if you count the EURO-Para)

 

Of course, everything could (and probably will) be wiped out tomorrow. :lol:

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What I want to see now with the threat on the 17th is for it to trend NW with a low closer to the coast. The cold air should be in place we just need the moisture. A light 1-3" snow is possible if this trends closer to shore. We need the models to latch on to this idea and consistently show it instead of showing it one run then dropping it the next. Since we are right at the 120 hour mark it definitely has a much greater chance of turning into something if we get just a few small changes the next few days. As it is right now it would be too far south for everyone.

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What I want to see now with the threat on the 17th is for it to trend NW with a low closer to the coast. The cold air should be in place we just need the moisture. A light 1-3" snow is possible if this trends closer to shore. We need the models to latch on to this idea and consistently show it instead of showing it one run then dropping it the next. Since we are right at the 120 hour mark it definitely has a much greater chance of turning into something if we get just a few small changes the next few days. As it is right now it would be too far south for everyone.

If it goes negative soon enough you would be looking at a bigger event bs 1-3

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If it goes negative soon enough you would be looking at a bigger event bs 1-3

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My concern though is if it goes negative too soon it could bring much warmer air inland as well. The cold air is moving in during the same timeframe and if it amplifies enough it may bring too much warm air inland causing either rain or mixing issues. It's a fine line we walk here in the SE lol.

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My concern though is if it goes negative too soon it could bring much warmer air inland as well. The cold air is moving in during the same timeframe and if it amplifies enough it may bring too much warm air inland causing either rain or mixing issues. It's a fine line we walk here in the SE lol.

 

 

Exactly...never underestimate WAA from a strong GOM Low...plenty of times it has screwed people....hell I've been screwed several times in the last 5 winters while people 50 miles north were plastered. The warm nose is real.

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Depending on where you reside in the SE, neg tilt should occur near the MS river or just east. For us here in E NC, we usually like to see the FL panhandle for the hard right turn. While the embedded shortwave kind of turned on the GFS, the long wave axis is still clearly positive, hence no sig strengthening of the slp as it exits stage right.

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The 46 day Euro parallel (monthly eps) has our pattern lasting through the end of February but with a few changes. It begins to take away the negative NAO and replaces it with the PV over Hudson Bay. The Southeast has a weak trough overhead while a decent PNA ridge extends into Canada and then another ridge sets up east of Greenland. It also has 19 of its ensemble members bringing light snow to RDU on the 17th.

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00z eps is a little discouraging. Plenty of lows on the SE/SE Coast, problem is the HP trended towards the weaker GFS solution. Not only is it weaker but it's trending slower (a whole 18 hrs slower). Even though 850s are fine at 00-12z 1/17 for NC and the N gulf states, it's not a trend we want to see get going.

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As soon as I say that, 06z GFS bringing in the goods. Snow in NC @132

 

@138 low moves out, not too much moisture because low bombs too far off coast.

 

@174 low getting going over alabama with plenty of cold, could be back to back systems this run. 

 

@180 snow in N AL, N GA, NW SC.

 

@198 still snow in SC.

 

Second 1/19 low never really gets going but light accumulations over the SE states although haven't seen snow maps. Interesting run, I'll let someone analyze the 500mb vorts, I'm off to work!

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From KGSP

152
FXUS62 KGSP 120818
AFDGSP

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG SC
318 AM EST TUE JAN 12 2016

.LONG TERM /THURSDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY/...
AS OF 300 AM EST TUESDAY...THE CENTRAL CONUS TROUGH WILL SHARPEN UP
OVER THE MID MS RIVER VALLEY THURSDAY NIGHT THROUGH FRIDAY...WITH
SHORTWAVE ENERGY EJECTING NORTHEAST AHEAD OF THIS TROUGH FROM THE
GULF COAST TO THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS. THE LATEST ECMWF REMAINS
SLIGHTLY FASTER THAN THE GFS/NAM IN BRINGING RETURN FLOW MOISTURE
AHEAD OF THIS SYSTEM BACK INTO THE AREA ON FRIDAY MORNING. THIS
WOULD HAVE PTYPE CONSEQUENCES...WITH AN EARLIER ONSET CREATING THE
POSSIBILITY OF BRIEF LIGHT FREEZING RAIN IN THE COLDER SHELTERED
VALLEY AND NORTHERN TIER LOCATIONS. AN ENSEMBLE MEAN SOLUTION WILL
BE FOLLOWED WHICH KEEPS THE DURATION OF ANY FREEZING RAIN VERY
BRIEF. OTHERWISE...PROFILES WILL BE SUFFICIENTLY WARM TO KEEP/TURN
ALL PRECIPITATION LIQUID THROUGH FRIDAY EVENING. THE NUMERICAL
MODELS ARE COMING INTO BETTER AGREEMENT ON THE TRACK OF A SURFACE
LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM SHUTTLING QUICKLY NORTHEAST THROUGH THE COASTAL
PLAIN OF THE CAROLINAS FRIDAY/FRIDAY NIGHT. THIS WOULD PLACE THE
HEAVIEST QPF OVER PIEDMONT SECTIONS. ALSO...A POCKET OF 6 TO 6.5 DEG
C PER KM LAPSE RATES SHOULD ACCOMPANY THIS LOW PASSAGE. ELEVATED
CONVECTION IN THE LOWER PIEDMONT SEEMS POSSIBLE...BUT THE SURFACE
BASED INSTABILITY REMAINS SHUNTED OFF TO THE SOUTHEAST WHERE THUNDER
CHANCES WILL BE GREATER.

THE PHASING WAVE SHOULD LIFT ACROSS THE APPALACHIANS ON FRIDAY NIGHT
WITH MID/UPPER LEVEL DRYING WRAPPING IN QUICKLY FROM THE SOUTHWEST.
LOW LEVEL WESTERLY FLOW MOISTURE WILL PERSIST LATE FRIDAY NIGHT
THROUGH SATURDAY...WITH A COLD FROPA SENDING SUB FREEZING 850 MB
TEMPERATURES ACROSS MOST OF THE AREA. THIS WILL SET THE STAGE FOR
ANOTHER WAVE REAMPLIFYING THE CENTRAL CONUS TROUGH ON SATURDAY...
WITH AN ASSOCIATED SYSTEM DIGGING ACROSS THE NORTHERN GULF OF MEXICO
SATURDAY NIGHT AND LIFTING THROUGH THE SOUTHEAST ON SUNDAY. THERE
REMAINS CONSIDERABLE UNCERTAINTY WITH THE HANDLING OF THIS SYSTEM
AND THE THERMAL PROFILES ACROSS THE FORECAST AREA. SOME DEGREE OF A
RAIN/SNOW MIX WILL CONTINUE TO BE FEATURED...WITH FROZEN PTYPES MORE
LIKELY IN WESTERN AND NORTHERN SECTIONS OVER THE WEEKEND
. NORTHWEST
FLOW MOISTURE SHOULD CONTINUE TO WRING OUT SNOW SHOWERS OVER THE
WESTERN MOUNTAINS THROUGH SUNDAY NIGHT. THE REGION SHOULD REMAIN
UNDER A BROAD EASTERN TROUGH THROUGH MONDAY WITH YET ANOTHER
REINFORCING COLD FRONT APPROACHING FROM THE NORTHWEST.

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Depending on where you reside in the SE, neg tilt should occur near the MS river or just east. For us here in E NC, we usually like to see the FL panhandle for the hard right turn. While the embedded shortwave kind of turned on the GFS, the long wave axis is still clearly positive, hence no sig strengthening of the slp as it exits stage right.

Hello sir,

Ck your PM's

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Encouraging trends on the last 3 GFS runs imo. It has taken the Sunday storm from a central Mexico to Cuba track, closer and closer to a Miller A track. Hopefully it doesn't end up full on cutter in a few runs.

It's possible for it to trend far westward but not likely. The overall pattern setup would have to change considerably and we're now within the range where that becomes unlikely. But a trend back south/east and weaker (like 0z) is still a real possibility. We just need to hope the next run continue to trend in our favor. I will feel good if the 12z models tomorrow still have our storm; and of course stronger.

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