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Octorcher or Roctober 2023 Discussion Thread


Damage In Tolland
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12 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Not if you read and understand it. The error is comparing the analysis temp to the reported temp. So when the error is positive, the analysis temp is higher than the reported temp…therefore the sensor is reading cooler than expected.

It wouldn’t be correct to judge a sensor’s error based on these analyses because it compares the data to stations around it. Microclimates can affect these. A place like BOS, on the coast, will see higher than usual “error” with east flow in the spring and fall because of possible significant differences between the coast and places 10 miles inland. 

UHIs, elevation differences, geographical differences, siting differences, etc all have an effect. What we look for are significant step changes (jumps) in the error over a short amount of time to indicate something changed with the station’s siting or instrumentation. New stations coming online can affect the analysis generated temps as well, but it doesn’t usually acount for significant shifts in the error. 

Thanks for the explanation.  I erased my post, cuz I kind of understood it in my mind after as….if it’s a negative departure, the temp should have actually read less(thus  negative).  Maybe that’s still wrong, but that way it made more sense. Lol.

Thank you though. 

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1 minute ago, WinterWolf said:

Thanks for the explanation.  I erased my post, cuz I kind of understood it in my mind after as….if it’s a negative departure, the temp should have actually read less(thus  negative).  Maybe that’s still wrong, but that way it made more sense. Lol.

Thank you though. 

It's kind of semantics, but it isn't necessarily fair to say a site like BOS is erroneous and reads 2F too high when it could simply be the effects of the heat island compared to the burbs. You don't know if a sensor is truly erroneous unless you're testing it directly with a calibrated comparison or in a chamber.

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4 minutes ago, dendrite said:

It's kind of semantics, but it isn't necessarily fair to say a site like BOS is erroneous and reads 2F too high when it could simply be the effects of the heat island compared to the burbs. You don't know if a sensor is truly erroneous unless you're testing it directly with a calibrated comparison or in a chamber.

BOS became pretty obvious with T/Td spreads of 3-4F in dense fog and ZR at 34F.   :lol: 

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2 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

And the record will never be corrected. :lol:

image.png.37be40e172757e2ad798d67aa7c7a341.png

 

 

I always got frustrated when I talked to people I know about this. I used to tell them look at the departures across the 1st order stations in SNE. How can one station be over 2F above the rest. The airmass doesn't magically change inside 128 lol. But people would still push back on it claiming UHI...but it doesn't work like that. Having over 2F difference in departures compared to other stations is statistically significant with this kind of data. Local micro climates aren't enough to explain it. Something was up there. Oh well.

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4 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I always got frustrated when I talked to people I know about this. I used to tell them look at the departures across the 1st order stations in SNE. How can one station be over 2F above the rest. The airmass doesn't magically change inside 128 lol. But people would still push back on it claiming UHI...but it doesn't work like that. Having over 2F difference in departures compared to other stations is statistically significant with this kind of data. Local micro climates aren't enough to explain it. Something was up there. Oh well.

Yeah UHI only matters for the raw numbers...not the departure from average....unless the UHI is a very new phenomenon as to not be fully factored into the 30 year normals (something like Dulles airport between 1980s and 2000s had a lot of increased land use change)....and we know Boston isn't a situation like that.

The same exact thing is going on with ORH for 3 years now....they are consistently 1.5-2F higher on the departures than the other first order sites....confirming what MADIS shows

 

MADIS_KORH.png

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I was thinking of this departure recently when out riding one morning on the minuteman bike trail while crossing route 128 not far from Hanscom. It was probably 645am so traffic had been heavy for a while and as I crossed the bridge, I noticed a significant increase in temperature - it was a cloudy day so the sun's impact was insignificant IMO. Has there been any studies done about how exhaust from jet engines could raise the air temperature? I know this issue at Logan has driven everyone crazy since it was noticed. The weather station should be in the Boston Common or something.

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

Cold day to end October.

First high in the 30s and currently 33F.

Went from shorts to needing hat and gloves outside.

With bright sunshine too. I ran up to the golf course and was able to get 5 holes in. Car thermo read 30° on the way out. It wasn’t that bad. There was no wind and I had hand warmers in my pocket. Currently 28.2°

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