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New England Met Summer 2022 Banter


HoarfrostHubb
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On 8/21/2022 at 8:55 AM, BrianW said:

I would probably fill now.  Historically prices usually increase as soon as it gets cold. I don't think people realize how much the situation in Ukraine/Europe is going to impact fuel costs here this winter especially New England. The future spot price for electricity in Europe is approaching $500 mwh this coming winter as they have a massive shortage of natural gas in storage for the winter. Here in New England which has sky high electricity costs we average around $50 mwh as a comparison.

Even wood pellets are going to be impacted as Europe is importing record pellets mainly from the Southeast. 

Have you looked into ditching propane and going with a heat pump?  Massachusetts has huge rebates for them and their is now a massive federal rebate for them that make them almost essentially free to convert when you combine the 2.

Take a look at this efficiency Maine fuel cost calculator. These numbers are based on current fuel costs and the savings are pretty massive.

 

Heat pump $1747

Propane $5053

If I remember correctly Taunton has their own electricity that is way cheaper than the rest of Massachusetts so your costs may actually be lower. 

 

https://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-home/heating-cost-comparison/

 

 

Our friends in town switched from oil to a heat pump and while they’re not burning oil anymore, they’re electricity bill went through the roof over the winter. In order for a heat pump to make financial sense imo, you need solar. Unfortunately they live in a heavily shaded area with massive oaks on their property. 
 

I looked into heat pumps to eventually replace our two AC units. They have a few years left. The thought is if we’re going to spend the money on new AC units, we might as well get heat pumps, add an electric hot water heater, install solar, and get rid of oil. However, the electrical usage will sky rocket. The projected solar system  would barely cover our existing usage, let alone the increase from heat pump and electric hot water. I did the math and there really aren’t any savings. It’s more of a feel good environmental change, unfortunately. 
 

I don’t understand your heat pump rebate post though. I was quoted $13k for a mid grade heat pump system. What would the final cost be after the rebates?
 

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2 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Our friends in town switched from oil to a heat pump and while they’re not burning oil anymore, they’re electricity bill went through the roof over the winter. In order for a heat pump to make financial sense imo, you need solar. Unfortunately they live in a heavily shaded area with massive oaks on their property. 
 

I looked into heat pumps to eventually replace our two AC units. They have a few years left. The thought is if we’re going to spend the money on new AC units, we might as well get heat pumps, add an electric hot water heater, install solar, and get rid of oil. However, the electrical usage will sky rocket. The projected solar system  would barely cover our existing usage, let alone the increase from heat pump and electric hot water. I did the math and there really aren’t any savings. It’s more of a feel good environmental change, unfortunately. 
 

I don’t understand your heat pump rebate post though. I was quoted $13k for a mid grade heat pump system. What would the final cost be after the rebates?
 

I just paid 12.5 for a heat pump system, I'm getting a $3,500 or so rebate and I think there's tax implications too. I was told not to use the heat pump when it gets below 30 so we programmed it so the oil would kick on below that. Just looking into solar now, I was hoping the system would be big enough to make the heat pump more feasible when it's colder but I'm not sure how they size solar systems.

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57 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Our friends in town switched from oil to a heat pump and while they’re not burning oil anymore, they’re electricity bill went through the roof over the winter. In order for a heat pump to make financial sense imo, you need solar. Unfortunately they live in a heavily shaded area with massive oaks on their property. 
 

I looked into heat pumps to eventually replace our two AC units. They have a few years left. The thought is if we’re going to spend the money on new AC units, we might as well get heat pumps, add an electric hot water heater, install solar, and get rid of oil. However, the electrical usage will sky rocket. The projected solar system  would barely cover our existing usage, let alone the increase from heat pump and electric hot water. I did the math and there really aren’t any savings. It’s more of a feel good environmental change, unfortunately. 
 

I don’t understand your heat pump rebate post though. I was quoted $13k for a mid grade heat pump system. What would the final cost be after the rebates?
 

Sounds like your neighbors have maybe and undersized system or the house is old and leaky with no insulation. I know over a dozen people that have switched and saved a fortune over oil/propane.

Solar just makes heat pumps essentially free to run and has a massive environmental benefit, but even buying electricity from Eversource its still way cheaper right now.  Another huge plus is electricity pricing is state regulated and very stable in price. There are 2 prices adjustments a year so your fuel costs is locked in for 6 months. Oil and Propane are on the free market and are not regulated like electricity and natural gas. I just watched a billboard for heating oil go from 3.89 to 4.39 in like a week.

Take a look at efficiency Maines fuel cost calculator that is using current actual fuel prices in Maine. The savings with a heat pump are astronomical right now. You would save $3555 over a fuel oil furnace this winter at current prices that are bound to go up once the cold sets in while that electricity fuel rate is locked in.

You can adjust the prices of the fuels in the calculator to compare. Just change Maines electricity rate from .21 to .25 which is CT's Eversources current rates. 

https://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-home/heating-cost-comparison/

CT has some of the best incentives in the nation on heat pumps. The federal rebates are new so not much is known yet but it is widely thought that they will stack on top of the state rebates. 

CT rebates are over on energizect.com. Up to $10k is available for a heat pump. Sounds like your quote didn't include the rebate. I know someone that just got a $10k system for $4.5k after the rebate.

Also, coming from an oil furnace their is basically zero maintenance. No more storing hundred of gallons of fuel that could leak or burn in your basement or ground. No more chimneys and carbon monoxide risk. Say goodbye to yearly furnaces cleanings as well. 

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Why are they called heat pumps if they are just mini splits? Also, I feel like I'd have piping running all over the side of my house. At least for me...I don't know how well situated I am to avoid that eye sore.

I was thinking about an insert to my fireplace. I know it might be 5K for the unit and installation...but I have no problem with getting wood.

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Just now, CoastalWx said:

Why are they called heat pumps if they are just mini splits? Also, I feel like I'd have piping running all over the side of my house. At least for me...I don't know how well situated I am to avoid that eye sore.

I was thinking about an insert to my fireplace. I know it might be 5K for the unit and installation...but I have no problem with getting wood.

"Heat pump is a technology which means a mini split can be the same as a heat pump, yes. However not all mini splits are heat pumps as mini splits can be cooling only."  

 

https://powersaveac.com/blog/post/is-a-mini-split-the-same-as-a-heat-pump

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53 minutes ago, DavisStraight said:

I just paid 12.5 for a heat pump system, I'm getting a $3,500 or so rebate and I think there's tax implications too. I was told not to use the heat pump when it gets below 30 so we programmed it so the oil would kick on below that. Just looking into solar now, I was hoping the system would be big enough to make the heat pump more feasible when it's colder but I'm not sure how they size solar systems.

What kind of heat pump is it?  If its a Mitsubishi Hyperheat they are still insanely efficient even in extreme cold. Switching over at 30 degrees is heat pump tech from the 90's when they couldnt handle cold very. Most hvac people are clueless about modern heat pumps and still think its 1990 and I bet that who is told you that. 

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1 minute ago, mreaves said:

"Heat pump is a technology which means a mini split can be the same as a heat pump, yes. However not all mini splits are heat pumps as mini splits can be cooling only."  

 

https://powersaveac.com/blog/post/is-a-mini-split-the-same-as-a-heat-pump

Cool, thanks. Just wasn't sure of the terminology. When I first heard that term, I thought it was some sort of geothermal thing.

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14 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Thing is, I don't need it for AC.  I need it to run my 2 heating zones and heat my hot water.  We are tankless hot water that is on demand from current oil boiler.

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2 hours ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Our friends in town switched from oil to a heat pump and while they’re not burning oil anymore, they’re electricity bill went through the roof over the winter. In order for a heat pump to make financial sense imo, you need solar. Unfortunately they live in a heavily shaded area with massive oaks on their property. 
 

I looked into heat pumps to eventually replace our two AC units. They have a few years left. The thought is if we’re going to spend the money on new AC units, we might as well get heat pumps, add an electric hot water heater, install solar, and get rid of oil. However, the electrical usage will sky rocket. The projected solar system  would barely cover our existing usage, let alone the increase from heat pump and electric hot water. I did the math and there really aren’t any savings. It’s more of a feel good environmental change, unfortunately. 
 

I don’t understand your heat pump rebate post though. I was quoted $13k for a mid grade heat pump system. What would the final cost be after the rebates?
 

In November 2019 we bought a modest-sized heat pump to cool our living room, where we spend the vast majority of our waking hours when in the house, and the machine works nicely without adding a huge amount to our electric bill.  Paid a bit under $3,700 installed, got a $1,000 rebate and a one-time $500 federal tax credit, thus recovering about 40% of the investment.

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Unless the price of propane doubles or something, I just don’t think a heat pump is worth it at my location.

Electric has traditionally been pretty affordable here having a municipal electric company, so we have an electric hot water heater, stove etc etc. propane is strictly used for heating.

200 gallons at 3.94 will cost me a hair under 800 bucks and that will be more than enough to get me through this winter.

Its hard to justify spending any money on upgrading a heating system that heats a 2800 square foot house for under 800 a winter 

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38 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Unless the price of propane doubles or something, I just don’t think a heat pump is worth it at my location.

Electric has traditionally been pretty affordable here having a municipal electric company, so we have an electric hot water heater, stove etc etc. propane is strictly used for heating.

200 gallons at 3.94 will cost me a hair under 800 bucks and that will be more than enough to get me through this winter.

Its hard to justify spending any money on upgrading a heating system that heats a 2800 square foot house for under 800 a winter 

That’s a good deal.  We will be spending around $4200 on oil this winter

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3 hours ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Unless the price of propane doubles or something, I just don’t think a heat pump is worth it at my location.

Electric has traditionally been pretty affordable here having a municipal electric company, so we have an electric hot water heater, stove etc etc. propane is strictly used for heating.

200 gallons at 3.94 will cost me a hair under 800 bucks and that will be more than enough to get me through this winter.

Its hard to justify spending any money on upgrading a heating system that heats a 2800 square foot house for under 800 a winter 

$800 for an entire winter is great.

I just did an early fill of my oil because I read the prices were going to start skyrocketing. I have a boiler system for heating and indirect water heater. 

180 gallons at $4.25 ~ $785

Unfortunately I'll be lucky if I make it until early January. Last winter I spent about $2200 on oil. This year is on track to surpass that

I need to start looking into alternatives

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22 hours ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Unless the price of propane doubles or something, I just don’t think a heat pump is worth it at my location.

Electric has traditionally been pretty affordable here having a municipal electric company, so we have an electric hot water heater, stove etc etc. propane is strictly used for heating.

200 gallons at 3.94 will cost me a hair under 800 bucks and that will be more than enough to get me through this winter.

Its hard to justify spending any money on upgrading a heating system that heats a 2800 square foot house for under 800 a winter 

Given that 200 gallons might, might get me through 2 months of a warmer winter stretch up here the heat pump at worst is net neutral on cost. Paired it with solar panels to offset the electricity, so once the heat pumps are paid off I estimate we'll save ~2000 a year.

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1 hour ago, OceanStWx said:

Given that 200 gallons might, might get me through 2 months of a warmer winter stretch up here the heat pump at worst is net neutral on cost. Paired it with solar panels to offset the electricity, so once the heat pumps are paid off I estimate we'll save ~2000 a year.

You lease or own the solar?

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10 hours ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Just unloaded 2 cans of raid into nest.  I now hear them smacking up against our windows.

Those cans aren't going to do shit to that nest and your just going to get them more angry.

You need something they will bring back into the nest. This is what the pros use in the link below and anyone can buy it online as long as your not applying it commercially.

There is some loophole where just about every professional insecticide is available online for a fraction of what it would cost to call an exterminator on the below website.

Only $32.50 and it would probably last you a decade. You just dust the entrance hole and the whole nest is wiped out in a few days.

https://diypestcontrol.com/tempo-dust-cyfluthrin-tempo-dust

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1 hour ago, BrianW said:

Those cans aren't going to do shit to that nest and your just going to get them more angry.

You need something they will bring back into the nest. This is what the pros use in the link below and anyone can buy it online as long as your not applying it commercially.

There is some loophole where just about every professional insecticide is available online for a fraction of what it would cost to call an exterminator on the below website.

Only $32.50 and it would probably last you a decade. You just dust the entrance hole and the whole nest is wiped out in a few days.

https://diypestcontrol.com/tempo-dust-cyfluthrin-tempo-dust

We had a yellow jacket nest in between our wood siding and our bathroom wall. They were beginning to get into the house 2 weeks ago. Had our pest guy out, he used an aerosol first, then dusted the entrances. The dust works similar to Diatomaceous earth with a side of pesticide residue. Haven't seen a yellow jacket since, but it did take 2 applications. The nest was huge....

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Anyone using oil or propane should fill their tanks now. I don't think people realize how high oil/propane prices are going to be this winter. The first cold snap is going to send prices through the roof.  

Low fuel inventories cause special concern in US Northeast.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/low-fuel-inventories-special-concern-us-northeast-88964767

PORTLAND, Maine -- Diesel and heating oil supplies in the Northeast are more than 50% below the recent average, raising concerns that an extreme weather event could cause supply disruptions, federal officials said.

Fuel supplies are lower than normal across the country for a variety of reasons, including the war in Ukraine. But it's the worst in the Northeast.

 

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On 8/22/2022 at 8:56 AM, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

For GOT fans, especially those who let down by the final season….House of Dragon last night was very good. I was skeptical at first but it drew me in right away, the series started off with a bang.

 

On 8/25/2022 at 6:02 AM, Damage In Tolland said:

HOD was good 

 

On 8/25/2022 at 9:33 AM, NorEastermass128 said:

I’m hearing all good reviews for HOD.  It may be time to pony up the $14.99/mo for HBO. 

Yeah.  It was good.  I am already envisioning some of the story heading in a certain direction, but I am probably wrong on my assumptions.

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