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January Med/Long Range Disco


WinterWxLuvr

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I'm not really at all worried about a horrifically bad winter at this point. Seems unlikely I'll finish below 10" or something.  I see a lot of people acting like a good March is likely though which I dunno about.

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I'm not really at all worried about a horrifically bad winter at this point. Seems unlikely I'll finish below 10" or something.  I see a lot of people acting like a good March is likely though which I dunno about.

last time we had a weak NINO fail similar to this year was 79/80

big storm that clipped us early March, but I think that was it

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lol another year of disappointments

sorry, had to say it....not one of my favorites in the least

but since no 2 are the same, we've got that going for us I suppose

I was specifically posting about high latitude look. This is no 10-11. We haven't had a meaningful -nao/ao combo since then. No way to know if we are moving towards a stable -ao/nao but you have to start somewhere

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last time we had a weak NINO fail similar to this year was 79/80

big storm that clipped us early March, but I think that was it

Honestly don't know much about that winter if anything. I'd be kinda surprised if we get out of Jan with no more snow of note. I do also doubt we're going to run into a lengthy (more than a few weeks or transient repeats) period of a great pattern at this point. I guess it could happen but I'd be among the perplexed.. like always maybe.

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Honestly don't know much about that winter if anything. I'd be kinda surprised if we get out of Jan with no more snow of note. I do also doubt we're going to run into a lengthy (more than a few weeks or transient repeats) period of a great pattern at this point. I guess it could happen but I'd be among the perplexed.. like always maybe.

I'm not sure what he's talking about.... it was a better winter than 06/07 for sure. 14.7" at BWI which is more than 06/07's total, with snow spread pretty evenly across January, February, and March. Yes, they fringed on the storms that DC got in on, but it still wasn't a dead-ratter type winter.

26.8" at IAD with two 6"+ snowstorms (one in January and one in March), and 20.1" at DCA (6"+ snowstorm in January, 5" storm in early March). 

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It's pretty obvious this year that making a definitive call beyond 7 days is risky as heck. Anybody calling for winter cancel or uncancel is at equal odds of blowing it.

DT came in here and declared the gefs being total bs and that there is no way the ao is going negative inside of 2 weeks. Now the euro ens mean is showing a -ao along with the gefs. Still no guaranty it will happen but this is one heck of a tough year to figure out 2+ week pattern evolution

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I'm not sure what he's talking about.... it was a better winter than 06/07 for sure. 14.7" at BWI which is more than 06/07's total, with snow spread pretty evenly across January, February, and March. Yes, they fringed on the storms that DC got in on, but it still wasn't a dead-ratter type winter.

26.8" at IAD with two 6"+ snowstorms (one in January and one in March), and 20.1" at DCA (6"+ snowstorm in January, 5" storm in early March). 

I mentioned this year's ENSO similarity to 79/80 and responded to Ian's comment that many were suggesting a big March this year so I through out how we had 1 big storm at the start of 3/80    :huh:

I did NOT discuss the entire winter or compare it to this one so far

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I mentioned this year's ENSO similarity to 79/80 and responded to Ian's comment that many were suggesting a big March this year so I through out how we had 1 big storm at the start of 3/80    :huh:

I did NOT discuss the entire winter

Sorry about that-- I thought your phrase "weak Nino fail" meant "winter fail," not "Nino that never got off the ground."

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Heh, trying to make a call inside 5 days has been tough.

Nah... Things have been really persistent. Torched in December... And then cold and dry... Models supported both periods really well. Accept the euro fail earlier this winter the models have called for little to no snow and that's what we got. This winter has been a peice of cake in terms of medium range forecasting.
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Nah... Things have been really persistent. Torched in December... And then cold and dry... Models supported both periods really well. Accept the euro fail earlier this winter the models have called for little to no snow and that's what we got. This winter has been a peice of cake in terms of medium range forecasting.

I'm not catching your drift here. Thus far, the individual events that have impacted us have been difficult to model, precisely because they were of the thread-the-needle type and/or borderline. It's easier to lock something in with a good pattern, on the large scale..

I don't know what you're talking about when you say "the euro failed" etc etc. Every model "fails" to some extent..that could mean anything.

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I'm not catching your drift here. Thus far, the individual events that have impacted us have been difficult to model, precisely because they were of the thread-the-needle type and/or borderline. It's easier to lock something in with a good pattern, on the large scale..

What events are you talking about?

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I'm not catching your drift here. Thus far, the individual events that have impacted us have been difficult to model, precisely because they were of the thread-the-needle type and/or borderline. It's easier to lock something in with a good pattern, on the large scale..

I don't know what you're talking about when you say "the euro failed" etc etc. Every model "fails" to some extent..that could mean anything.

The event that i am talking about with the euro was the mid late december thing... The euro showed a hit like five runs in a row and then once it got within 120,hours the threat went poof.

And if you think about it that's really the only viable threat that the any of the models showed within a decent range.

So my original post simply pointed out that it has not been hard at all to make a call inside five days. When all of the models have called for no snow and we have gotten no snow.... No surprises no mistery... Easy to forecast.

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GFS and Para are basically punting the rest of January. It's unreal how crappy this winter is so far.

At this point last year you had a week of winter in Dec, a 2" snow on Jan 2 and that's it....nothing else.

This year we had a good snow at Thanksgiving and a 2" snow last week.

Was last year a crappy winter at this point? Or were our expectations a bit out of whack for this year?

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At this point last year you had a week of winter in Dec, a 2" snow on Jan 2 and that's it....nothing else.

This year we had a good snow at Thanksgiving and a 2" snow last week.

Was last year a crappy winter at this point? Or were our expectations a bit out of whack for this year?

Our expectations were out of whack...pure and simple...If I went in thinking it would be a disaster this would be much less painful...my own fault
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Our expectations were out of whack...pure and simple...If I went in thinking it would be a disaster this would be much less painful...my own fault

Given that Siberia snow pack there was no reason to think this winter would suck this bad, if you look at the top 5-10 Siberia snow packs in October virtually none had winters even half as bad as this winter has been

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Given that Siberia snow pack there was no reason to think this winter would suck this bad, if you look at the top 5-10 Siberia snow packs in October virtually none had winters even half as bad as this winter has been

Well the optimist in me says it's not over yet... I guess we'll have to see where we are come March 15th..but I've scaled back my expectations to clippers and freezing drizzle

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Given that Siberia snow pack there was no reason to think this winter would suck this bad, if you look at the top 5-10 Siberia snow packs in October virtually none had winters even half as bad as this winter has been

This makes the argument that the data set is too small, and that the conclusions previously drawn are, at least in part, wrong an easy(ier) one.

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Given that Siberia snow pack there was no reason to think this winter would suck this bad, if you look at the top 5-10 Siberia snow packs in October virtually none had winters even half as bad as this winter has been

 

Yeah, but until a couple of years ago no one actually looked at any of the Siberian snowpacks to draw conclusions about how the East Coast winter was going to be...  It was a much less disappointing time...

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This makes the argument that the data set is too small, and that the conclusions previously drawn are, at least in part, wrong an easy(ier) one.

It may be, I've come to the conclusion neutral ENSOs or near neutral ENSOs are generally bad for the East Coast, there are exceptions to that but for whatever reason it seems modest forcing in the ENSO region, so long as it's not strong produces better winters, I have long felt the PV tends to not want to undergo changes in neutral ENSOs, so if it gets stuck in a bad regime it stays that way

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00z GFS at 192 looks... interesting... hopefully some of the precip gets to us before the massive high moves out

 

ETA:  and it cuts just as the massive high moves on out on days 8 to 10

 

GFS from Day 8 to the end of the run shows some potential for us... even though right now it cuts...big arctic shot coming in as well at the end of the run

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No question that my expectations were for an epic winter with all of the early indicators pointing that way. I guess we could still score a couple of decent storms in Feb or March to save the winter. But yesterday's runs were showing a dead southern stream basically through the end of January. We all know how a northern dominated pattern works here. Jumpers that basically give us a couple of inches while New England gets smashed. Or the storms just miss us all together. Your right though that my expectations were out of line.

At this point last year you had a week of winter in Dec, a 2" snow on Jan 2 and that's it....nothing else.

This year we had a good snow at Thanksgiving and a 2" snow last week.

Was last year a crappy winter at this point? Or were our expectations a bit out of whack for this year?

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