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March Madness 03/03/2014 -------> The EURO abides


winterymix

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Oh no absolutely not a black hole at all. We have come a long way in modeling for sure. I'm just saying that we are closing in a near-short term and as all the necessary players come to fruition the models will hopefully lock on to a narrower window versus differences in the pv, track of the low, cold air timing etc.

 

i'll sum this up in one more post -- this narrower window has less to do with increased sampling over land and more to do with shorter time scales wrt to non-linear error growth within NWP models -- *some* US mets seem to think that forecasts get better in the near short-term because we've "sampled" things as they come ashore out west -- but in reality, it's because generally NWP models are just better on shorter time scales (duh) as errors (and their non-linear nature) have less time to grow and lead to forecast uncertainty.

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Yeah, I would say...

As for the wave itself in the southern stream... UKMET is the outlier. It is much slower than GGEM, GFS and Euro. As for the situation in Canada, the Euro seems like a compromise of the models today...but that means it has a bit of a "GGEM touch" here. Watch for these things on the EPS later.

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Looks like a fair dose of plain rain for wash/fred/carroll county. The front running stuff doesn't have temps at the surface or above for a while. then it looks like .25 of ice before a switch to snow up there. 

 

Since dc/balt misses the frontrunning for the most part we are mostly snow but lower qpf totals. Northern tier is 1.2-1.3 total qpf but .3-.4 of that is rain verbatim. 

 

DC is bullseyed with the cold slug. 

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These are a few of my favorite things from the Euro:

 

-Heaviest slug of precip comes doesn't come in until the column has cooled

-850s crash to -8 by the time the snow ends

-Surface falls through the 20s during the snow

 

A great run for DC

 

 

that's the hardest part to dissect, but I think most of the 0.20" to 0.40" that falls between 1am and 7am from SE to NW is snow...my guess is that slug comes in more toward the 3-4am range rather than 12-2am...I don't think based on this run that we see heavy rain to heavy snow...

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yes...and I'd guess 75% of what falls in the 1am - 7am panel is snow..so probably 1-2" already on ground by 7am

 

That 1am-7pm period is pretty tricky. IMO- i think you are right. There is a lull before the main slug moves in so the majority of the precip in that period would be snow and would come late like 4-7am or so. 

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Easier to rile then a hornets nest

But seriously thanks for your commentary and update

Matt takes a lot of flack from weenies. The cryptic comment hit a nerve last night so I'm not sure why you would use it again... Remember that humor and sarcasm are not easily portrayed online.

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any zr up this way? or simply rain to a little sleet to snow?

 

Verbatim yes. Maybe .20 max or so in your area between 7pm-1am but temps are really marginal. Around 30* but regular rain has already fallen so I can't see it being much of an issue. Assuming the run is right of course. We're going to have a long weekend. 

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Verbatim yes. Maybe .20 max or so in your area between 7pm-1am but temps are really marginal. Around 30* but regular rain has already fallen so I can't see it being much of an issue. Assuming the run is right of course. We're going to have a long weekend. 

 

thanks, bob :)

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What do we think the ratio's could be...I see if we are around 20 degrees..that should be 15:1..thoughts?

Ratios are more about temperatures in the snow-growth zone.  I don't know what temps are aloft on the Euro, but on the GFS, temps throughout the column are quite cold, so I think 12-15:1 is possible if the GFS perfectly verified.  

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that's the hardest part to dissect, but I think most of the 0.20" to 0.40" that falls between 1am and 7am from SE to NW is snow...my guess is that slug comes in more toward the 3-4am range rather than 12-2am...I don't think based on this run that we see heavy rain to heavy snow...

 

Yeah, its tough to figure out from the Euro 6 hr panels and lack of thermal profiles.  at 6z, 850s are 3C with the 0c line near FDK.  By 12z, we're at -4 at 850 with the 0c line past EZF.  0.4ish fell by 12z with another .4-.5 falls afterwards. So out of the 0.4ish that fell by 12z based on where the 850 line went, we might lose 0.2 of that, conservatively?

 

ETA:  Late to the party...just saw Matt and Bob's post.

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Yeah, its tough to figure out from the Euro 6 hr panels and lack of thermal profiles.  at 6z, 850s are 3C with the 0c line near FDK.  By 12z, we're at -4 at 850 with the 0c line past EZF.  0.4ish fell by 12z with another .4-.5 falls afterwards. So out of the 0.4ish that fell by 12z based on where the 850 line went, we might lose 0.2 of that, conservatively?

On text output, EZF 850mb tem is 0 at 12z while the surface is -0.3 by 18z 850mb is at -5.7 and surface is at -5.4 and roughly .5 inches of QPF fall between 12 z and 18z

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