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February 2014 Pattern Discussion Thread


free_man

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The delete button may become quite active if people cannot post good meteorology in the discussion threads.

If people want to whine about it, then I would advise them to use the banter thread. People don't donate to this site to read grown men acting like little children in a met discussion thread because a 204 hour prog shifted 200 miles. We're supposed to be more sophisticated than accuwx boards.

It's gonna change every run. Even though we've mentioned this until we are blue in the face...it's getting lost in the shuffle. If people just loop a North Anerica 500mb plot, you can see why.

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I wonder if indeed the models are retrograding things too much. Just playing around with differences in the 12z vs 00z ensembles..it does push everything a little farther south next week. In fact, it almost has a stronger southwest US trough, but we now have a big ULL near the Canadian Maritimes that acts as our friend to keep the low south. This is what I mean by having so many players and how the models will change every run to some extent.  

 

If I can say something as well...please don't take model discussion as the actual final outcome of the pattern or solution. If you want our opinion, ask. :)   I feel like some people are making assumptions based on how a met describes a model solution. It makes it extremely uncomfortable talking about a non-favorable solution since the weenie banter gets out of control.

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I wonder if indeed the models are retrograding things too much. Just playing around with differences in the 12z vs 00z ensembles..it does push everything a little farther south next week. In fact, it almost has a stronger southwest US trough, but we now have a big ULL near the Canadian Maritimes that acts as our friend to keep the low south. This is what I mean by having so many players and how the models will change every run to some extent.

If I can say something as well...please don't take model discussion as the actual final outcome of the pattern or solution. If you want our opinion, ask. :) I feel like some people are making assumptions based on how a met describes a model solution. It makes it extremely uncomfortable talking about a non-favorable solution since the weenie banter gets out of control.

Yeah and it makes us as weenies uncomfortable as well, so can only imagine how you feel if we feel it too.
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I wonder if indeed the models are retrograding things too much. Just playing around with differences in the 12z vs 00z ensembles..it does push everything a little farther south next week. In fact, it almost has a stronger southwest US trough, but we now have a big ULL near the Canadian Maritimes that acts as our friend to keep the low south. This is what I mean by having so many players and how the models will change every run to some extent.  

 

If I can say something as well...please don't take model discussion as the actual final outcome of the pattern or solution. If you want our opinion, ask. :)   I feel like some people are making assumptions based on how a met describes a model solution. It makes it extremely uncomfortable talking about a non-favorable solution since the weenie banter gets out of control.

 

I noticed the 12z Euro has a weaker east Asian jet at day 10 than the 12z GFS. I wonder if this is because the GFS (and GEFS) is forecasting more intense MJO convection. I've only seen the filtered OLR forecasts for the GEFS (and not the Euro or eps) which indicate persistant convection east of the maritime continent. While the RMM phase space is not great in isolating the MJO from-equatorially trapped waves, the Euro forecast does show a weaker amplitude than the GFS over the next 2 weeks.

 

The weaker east Asian jet in the Euro forecast allows for a more amplified pattern to develop downstream as the block in the Alaska region is more cut-off from the strong flow. The stronger (and more poleward) jet in the GFS keeps the blocking over the extreme North Pacific weaker and the downstream features less amplified.

 

There's certainly a lot going on in this pattern and I'm not entirely certain this explains the model variability, but I guess it's something to watch.

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I thought the ensemble mean looked decent here.

 

I did too. It still could trend north, but based on the ensemble mean, I would say we would have a pretty sig winter storm on 2/4.

It's still way too early to figure out where that one will track.

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I noticed the 12z Euro has a weaker east Asian jet at day 10 than the 12z GFS. I wonder if this is because the GFS (and GEFS) is forecasting more intense MJO convection. I've only seen the filtered OLR forecasts for the GEFS (and not the Euro or eps) which indicate persistant convection east of the maritime continent. While the RMM phase space is not great in isolating the MJO from-equatorially trapped waves, the Euro forecast does show a weaker amplitude than the GFS over the next 2 weeks.

 

The weaker east Asian jet in the Euro forecast allows for a more amplified pattern to develop downstream as the block in the Alaska region is more cut-off from the strong flow. The stronger (and more poleward) jet in the GFS keeps the blocking over the extreme North Pacific weaker and the downstream features less amplified.

 

There's certainly a lot going on in this pattern and I'm not entirely certain this explains the model variability, but I guess it's something to watch.

 

That's a good observation. It certainly could be part of the issue. One thing I have noticed is the dynamical models are too weak with the MJO and are falsely  forcing it into the COD. Some of the stat products from Mike Ventrice and Paul Roundy have worked fairly well and are showing continuing forcing near and east of 135E. These products break it down into the components of the MJO and the velocity potential at 200mb seems to be a better approx to the MJO since it's not prone to all the noise and what not that goes on in the lower levels.

 

The EC and GEFS at day 10 have differences perhaps owing to what you alluded. The EC ensembles are not as widespread with ridging in the arctic and therefore don't have such a suppressed PV like the GEFS have. Canadian is sort of in the middle. I think models are a bit too happy with retrogression...although the idea may be valid for sure. I have noticed the euro op and even the ensembles have been PAC jet happy this season.

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Think confluence and crushed and weaker wave and it's snow to ice which is nice and we'll roll the dice

 

I pray you are right.  We take the GFS and run.  Every other model is much warmer.

 

GGEM is very similar to the ECM for Saturday...no wonder Toronto Blizz loves his national model.

 

f132.gif

 

Luckily the GGEM is such an awful model because it follows up with a very moist system next week.

 

f228.gif

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