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Hurricane Irene - Discussion Part IV


Typhoon Tip

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FWIW, not trying to cause trouble in this thread. I want to make that point clear. I saw CT Rain and others claiming that the NAM intialized to far W, so I was intrigued. At 24 hrs, 00z RGEM looks to be just N/NE of Norfolk... so thats another model which went west with the NAM. True, those two might be outliers when the GFS comes out in 10 mins... but what if the GFS agrees? Can all 3 then be tossed for intialization errors?

The point is ... the RGEM is a Canadian model; if we give them the initialization - IF - than it makes sense that both the NAM and it were west, seeing as we know the NAM was west.

I don't think the GFS has a different data ingest - I bet it too hedges west.

But CT' is right here - the NAM is already west biased right now, and with now-cast showing E corrections, these west runs don't make a lot of sense.

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Land friction. Over the water there is much less friction so the winds are stronger. Sometimes the models over do the land friction and you end up with highers gusts than you'd think looking at the sustained winds. But the land makes the wind more inconsistent. You'll see it pulse more in gusts....you could be going at 35-40 sustained and then rip a few gusts over 70.

Friction was actually my number 1 guess. Thanks.

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The point is ... the RGEM is a Canadian model; if we give them the initialization - IF - than it makes sense that both the NAM and it were west, seeing as we know the NAM was west.

I don't think the GFS has a different data ingest - I bet it too hedges west.

But CT' is right here - the NAM is already west biased right now, and with now-cast showing E corrections, these west runs don't make a lot of sense.

Agreed. I like nhc track.

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that's only about 3 hours. If you look at the long distance Wilmington Radar you can see improvement in the southern portion of the "eyewall." I'm actually more hopeful for overall improvement in structure on the southern half of the storm. This would cause southerly shear to have a more difficult time in penetrating the core as it moves north of NC into NY and SNE....regardless of actual intensification.

I haven't seen anything in 12 hrs so when I fired up satellite, It didn't disappoint me. The eye is fading on satellite for now, but the outflow is certainly allowing it to hold its own.

post-33-0-74282900-1314416373.gif

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that's only about 3 hours. If you look at the long distance Wilmington Radar you can see improvement in the southern portion of the "eyewall." I'm actually more hopeful for overall improvement in structure on the southern half of the storm. This would cause southerly shear to have a more difficult time in penetrating the core as it moves north of NC into NY and SNE....regardless of actual intensification.

Is that improvement, or just coming into range?

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The strongest winds over on the Cape might be well after landfall. There is just an awesome LLJ of 80+ kts out of the southwest as the storm is over interior SNE.

I could see something like the sun trying to come out and fighting the stratus flying north at 80kts, along with the ocnl shower there.

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I haven't seen anything in 12 hrs so when I fired up satellite, It didn't disappoint me. The eye is fading on satellite for now, but the outflow is certainly allowing it to hold its own.

post-33-0-74282900-1314416373.gif

The trough to the NNW of the system seems to be supplying a mass sink - this can be seen as debris shield expanding rapidly up the coast. At least that 's what it looks like to me.

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I could see something like the sun trying to come out and fighting the stratus flying north at 80kts, along with the ocnl shower there.

This is gonna be fun to watch unfold during tomorrow in terms of track in the M.A. I think the ideal track to get big winds for the largest area of SNE is to keep it just barely offshore and then make landfall over W LI....the flooding potential though would obviously be lessened for a lot of our area...still some flooding rains for sure, but not the 6-10 inch amounts.

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This is gonna be fun to watch unfold during tomorrow in terms of track in the M.A. I think the ideal track to get big winds for the largest area of SNE is to keep it just barely offshore and then make landfall over W LI....the flooding potential though would obviously be lessened for a lot of our area...still some flooding rains for sure, but not the 6-10 inch amounts.

Yeah something like ISP and moving NNE would likely be the worst case for the SNE region in general. I'm anxious myself to see what happens. I really want the euro to fail on this, and our good old theorems of TC as they approach the Northeast to come true..lol. I think now is the time where any weenie wobble west or east will have more meaning..especially as it nears HSE latitude. Obviously we know they wobble, but as they move ne, it may be harder to correct west unless the euro idea of the s/w trying to capture and pull it north has merit. The euro should be interesting tonight.

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Interesting tidbit from the DISCO:

A STATIONARY

FRONT CURRENTLY LIES ACROSS SOUTHERN NEW ENGLAND...THIS FEATURE IS

EXPECTED TO LIFT NORTHWARD DUE TO THE VERY LARGE CIRCULATION OF

IRENE. THIS SHOULD DELAY EXTRATROPICAL TRANSITION UNTIL IRENE IS

OVER MAINE OR SOUTHEASTERN CANADA.

Gonna be a rare, purely tropical system, here.

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12Z Euro, 0Z NAM, 0Z GFS all show an over NJ or just off the coast of NJ track into just east of NYC...

Seems to me not only a trend back West, but also a loss of the "hook" into central/northeastern Mass...

Will / Scott / others, what do you make of this? I was expecting influence of Westerlies to become more clear on models as we approach...

Per disco from Philly office:

The forward speed of Hurricane Irene in conjunction with the timing and amplification of the incoming upper trough is crucial in determining the western extent of the hurricanes track. This is critical, as a later timing in the trough amplifying some more will tend to allow the hurricane to track farther west. Our wind forecast is based off of the gridded wind field from the official NHC forecast and this will be updated with subsequent advisory issuances. If the center tracks farther off the coast, there may be a rather tight gradient in the rain shield across the County Warning Area from east to west. If the storm shifts to an inland track, then the axis of heaviest rain will shift and the threat of tornadoes will increase. There continues to be a high risk of impacts with this hurricane this includes widespread damaging winds, torrential rain, coastal flooding, dangerous rip currents, and battering waves and beach erosion. For the heavy rain aspect, see the hydrology section below.

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The other thing to think about, is if this comes in during the time the GFS has, and the eastern semi sector dryslots, daytime heating will add a slight boost to help mix down those winds. Even a degree or two boost is all you need.

Yeah I'm hoping for the core of the LLJ on Cape Cod to come across mid/late afternoon. That could help us really rip those SW winds.

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