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Baroclinic Zone

2018/19 Winter Banter and General Discussion - We winter of YORE

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3 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

It's the same as here. <=1/4SM, 35+ mph for 3+ hours. 

Ever wonder why they dropped heavy snow warnings and why they dont have a higher criteria for very heavy snowfall?  Like the definition for a blizzard without heavy falling snow, maybe that should be called a ground blizzard warning, while we have a separate warning for very heavy falling snow along with high winds?  For example, we could do something like, snow falling at the rate of at least 2 inches per hour for 6 consecutive hours with 40+ mph gusts for that time period and call that a snowfall blizzard warning.  Or when a storm is predicted to drop a foot or more of snow over a wide area in less than 24 hours, you could call that a heavy snow warning rather than have a winter storm warning be the top end criteria for heavy snow- which seems really low for the top end criteria to be a 6" snowfall.

 

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4 hours ago, ice1972 said:

Ya that’s my point.....the folks that live in South Lake Tahoe scoff at the folks in Boston when it comes to bizzys I think.....which is why I asked if NWS has different criteria for blizzy warnings depending on location....

It can snow there on July 4th- imagine that lol.

All this snow isn't just good for their skiing, it's even better news for their reservoirs.

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7 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

Ever wonder why they dropped heavy snow warnings and why they dont have a higher criteria for very heavy snowfall?  Like the definition for a blizzard without heavy falling snow, maybe that should be called a ground blizzard warning, while we have a separate warning for very heavy falling snow along with high winds?  For example, we could do something like, snow falling at the rate of at least 2 inches per hour for 6 consecutive hours with 40+ mph gusts for that time period and call that a snowfall blizzard warning.  Or when a storm is predicted to drop a foot or more of snow over a wide area in less than 24 hours, you could call that a heavy snow warning rather than have a winter storm warning be the top end criteria for heavy snow- which seems really low for the top end criteria to be a 6" snowfall.

Not happening. If anything we'll be trimming the number of warning types we issue. 

That was the goal of getting rid of the heavy snow warning. It covered similar space to a winter storm warning. When we verify events we can still call it heavy snow vs a winter storm (which would have mixed precip and/or wind). 

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14 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Not happening. If anything we'll be trimming the number of warning types we issue. 

That was the goal of getting rid of the heavy snow warning. It covered similar space to a winter storm warning. When we verify events we can still call it heavy snow vs a winter storm (which would have mixed precip and/or wind). 

I appreciate that we would want warnings to be simplified for better communication with the public, but is it a good idea for there not to be a separate warning issued for extreme events vs moderate 6 inch ones?

Or is it that the impact of let's say an 18 inch snowstorm isn't considered different enough from an 8 inch snowstorm for example and that's we're better off without the additional top level warning?

 

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28 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

I appreciate that we would want warnings to be simplified for better communication with the public, but is it a good idea for there not to be a separate warning issued for extreme events vs moderate 6 inch ones?

Or is it that the impact of let's say an 18 inch snowstorm isn't considered different enough from an 8 inch snowstorm for example and that's we're better off without the additional top level warning?

Basically. The impact of more snow is really just the snow removal aspect, which plows keep up with to the point that 18 inches isn't sitting on roads (i.e. there is never more than a few inches on the road at any time). The step up is really blizzards, when plows can't even find the roads to clear them. 

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7 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Basically. The impact of more snow is really just the snow removal aspect, which plows keep up with to the point that 18 inches isn't sitting on roads (i.e. there is never more than a few inches on the road at any time). The step up is really blizzards, when plows can't even find the roads to clear them. 

Right, the wind blows the snow right back faster than the roads can be plowed.  I experienced that in the Boxing Day Blizzard, couldn't do any plowing or shoveling because every few minutes after shoveling I looked outside and there was a big snow drift where I had just shoveled lol.  And this was well after the snow had stopped falling!

 

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9 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

It's the same as here. <=1/4SM, 35+ mph for 3+ hours. 

My point was that in the Sierra Nevada range or any mountain range where you get a ton of snow that criteria is easily met basically every storm......I mean the wind over some of the mountain tops is easily 60+ mph and its not uncommon to gust over 90.........and yet I don't remember blizzard warnings being hoisted for every storm back when I regularly used to drive to Lake Tahoe many times per winter......it was always Winter Storm Warnings.......so the question is what makes NWS out of Sacramento issue blizzard warnings - some higher criteria?

Actually now that I'm looking at STO site the blizzard warnings are actually for the lower elevations and they have a regular winter storm warning along the spine of the Sierra.....maybe its elevation dependent.....where blizzard criteria is less likely to be met for a given storm

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13 hours ago, ice1972 said:

My point was that in the Sierra Nevada range or any mountain range where you get a ton of snow that criteria is easily met basically every storm......I mean the wind over some of the mountain tops is easily 60+ mph and its not uncommon to gust over 90.........and yet I don't remember blizzard warnings being hoisted for every storm back when I regularly used to drive to Lake Tahoe many times per winter......it was always Winter Storm Warnings.......so the question is what makes NWS out of Sacramento issue blizzard warnings - some higher criteria?

Actually now that I'm looking at STO site the blizzard warnings are actually for the lower elevations and they have a regular winter storm warning along the spine of the Sierra.....maybe its elevation dependent.....where blizzard criteria is less likely to be met for a given storm

They definitely split their zones by elevation not just county level. As far as directives go though, there is no stated difference in criteria.

It's possible it's like us with MWN, that the majority of the zone doesn't reach criteria. Also possible that lack of verification means they don't issue blizzard warnings.

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9 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

They definitely split their zones by elevation not just county level. As far as directives go though, there is no stated difference in criteria.

It's possible it's like us with MWN, that the majority of the zone doesn't reach criteria. Also possible that lack of verification means they don't issue blizzard warnings.

speaking of blizzards, are you even considering blizzard watches or warnings for downeast Maine? I'm thinking the sustained winds may not produce unless there's quite a bit of mixing down to the surface?

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3 minutes ago, MarkO said:

speaking of blizzards, are you even considering blizzard watches or warnings for downeast Maine? I'm thinking the sustained winds may not produce unless there's quite a bit of mixing down to the surface?

Don't exist anymore!

It's on the table though. After 12z Sunday, the NE LLJ really cranks, the question may be whether +SN is still falling long enough.

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4 hours ago, OceanStWx said:

They definitely split their zones by elevation not just county level. As far as directives go though, there is no stated difference in criteria.

It's possible it's like us with MWN, that the majority of the zone doesn't reach criteria. Also possible that lack of verification means they don't issue blizzard warnings.

They aired another bit of misinformation on TWC during their Sierra Blizzard coverage, they said that only 5 blizzard warnings have been issued for the Lake Tahoe area (they said that area is covered by the Reno area NWS) in the whole history of forecasting for that region!

 

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27 minutes ago, ajisai said:

So ladies and gents - drink of choice for the upcoming storm?

Feeling a bit bourbon for this one.

Ice coffee 

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Reading through the storm thread and hearing people stress about mid-level temps really is starting to give me vibes of some of threads for storms back in the Southeastern subforum. Still crazy how a lot of NC has gotten more snow than parts of NE so far.

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2 hours ago, SimeonNC said:

Reading through the storm thread and hearing people stress about mid-level temps really is starting to give me vibes of some of threads for storms back in the Southeastern subforum. Still crazy how a lot of NC has gotten more snow than parts of NE so far.

been rough up here.. why are you post limited?

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2 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

New, supplementary wx station in place

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

 

Very nice!  Is that a Davis?  I think I might get something this spring.  Been wanting one for a long time but always find something more important to spend on.  I was ready last January until my truck decided a new tranny was more important! ;)

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Very nice!  Is that a Davis?  I think I might get something this spring.  Been wanting one for a long time but always find something more important to spend on.  I was ready last January until my truck decided a new tranny was more important! 
An old Davis and new ambient ws2000

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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5 minutes ago, Lava Rock said:

An old Davis and new ambient ws2000

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

Nice.  Neighbor has an Ambient that he’s been really pleased with.  I don’t know the model though.  I guess I have some research to do, so many available now.

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I guess intellicast.com map site got re-branded and pulled into weather underground. Intellicast radar was ok but the wunderground radar is crap. Can't get it to keep settings, radar stops and then won't restart. Anyone have a suggestion for a good, free, radar site?

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2 hours ago, rimetree said:

I guess intellicast.com map site got re-branded and pulled into weather underground. Intellicast radar was ok but the wunderground radar is crap. Can't get it to keep settings, radar stops and then won't restart. Anyone have a suggestion for a good, free, radar site?

myradar.

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