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Mid to Long Term Discussion 2017


buckeyefan1

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Euro EPS snowfall probabilities dropped WAY off for the mid-atlantic from about 70% for 1" snow to about 40%, the same probability as Central NC and Northern Counties of Gulf States. This is important because it shows the Euro isn't sold on a northern solution (VA/DC threat only) and no single area has great probabilities outside of the mountains. Game on.

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EPS probabilities show a lower chance of a central US to MA track and at least the probability of a more southern solution as probability percentages decreased wildly over mid-central US and mid-atlantic. Click on the link in my signature to see the images (not posting here due to rules about paid Euro/ensembles)

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The move toward the colder UKMet setup, if it continues, gives us a fighting chance. Without it, we got no shot. With it, the setup is still very sensitive to the timing and evolution of the PAC wave or waves kicking out. Ideally the PAC wave moving east would be tracking west to east along a farther south trajectory for more stream separation, but beggars can't be choosers

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3 minutes ago, packbacker said:

How often do ridges build from MX up into central conus splitting a trough.  I am sure it's happened but I can't recall.  If it wants to build so bad, can it not build to the AK ridge instead of the Greenland ridge...

Screen Shot 2016-12-31 at 9.17.39 AM.png

Screen Shot 2016-12-31 at 9.19.36 AM.png

Not sure if you saw my post on the previous page but definitely an interesting trend in the modeling...impressive height changes over the central US, timing would be just after s/w moves east, could help it stay south IMO.

wkVqccA.png

 

Compare the 18z vs 0z Jet

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As is typically the case, it all comes down to interaction between the northern and southern streams.  Prior to 0z runs, we were trending with more northern energy phasing in with the western s/w earlier which halts the progression of the HP eastward and quickly moves the LP north and east.

0z abruptly went back to keeping them completely separate.  6z backtracked a bit with some interaction which weakened the s/w.  As long as the s/w over the N Plains stays east and doesn't interact with the western wave, we're good.

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9 minutes ago, Jon said:

Not sure if you saw my post on the previous page but definitely an interesting trend in the modeling...impressive height changes over the central US, timing would be just after s/w moves east, could help it stay south IMO.

 

 

Compare the 18z vs 0z Jet

 

Was just reading that...good read.  Agree, and anything that does come out will get kicked east..thus less amplification/climbing the coast.  

The UK actually has the ridge day 6 further west and a little taller, splitting the coast, it allows the trough in the east to really drop south, it has largest dev over Ohio.  The EPS has a better atlantic block but UK keeps the trough coming out and the wave low coming into the pac more separated.  Don't know what that means, but would like the UK pac and EPS atlantic.  Both UK/Euro would be really suppressed at this range and like Grit said, we will need some luck on timing.

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2 minutes ago, Wow said:

As is typically the case, it all comes down to interaction between the northern and southern streams.  Prior to 0z runs, we were trending with more northern energy phasing in with the western s/w earlier which halts the progression of the HP eastward and quickly moves the LP north and east.

0z abruptly went back to keeping them completely separate.  6z backtracked a bit with some interaction which weakened the s/w.  As long as the s/w over the N Plains stays east and doesn't interact with the western wave, we're good.

Webber posted on the other board, that one of the pieces that is a player, went over areas that sample data yesterday, and that was the reason for the abrupt changes. Better data into the models. - paraphrasing, of course

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9 minutes ago, Wow said:

As is typically the case, it all comes down to interaction between the northern and southern streams.  Prior to 0z runs, we were trending with more northern energy phasing in with the western s/w earlier which halts the progression of the HP eastward and quickly moves the LP north and east.

0z abruptly went back to keeping them completely separate.  6z backtracked a bit with some interaction which weakened the s/w.  As long as the s/w over the N Plains stays east and doesn't interact with the western wave, we're good.

Yep...when looking comparing the h5 anomaly maps for the 0z UK at 132 v/s 12z from yesterday at the same time the 0z UK actually pops a full blown pac ridge keeping it separate.  At 144 the low does crash into the coast and knocks the ridge down some.

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6 minutes ago, Cheeznado said:

After backing off at 12Z the 00Z EPS has half the members with measurable snow in the ATL area. One is 12"- shades of the DGEX. Right now I am leaning in the direction of a minor nuisance event here.

 

It seems there are 3 options in that area. Slider with the high not likely pressing far enough south.  Thats either PL or RA.  Strong system with no wedge...rain.  Strong system with wedge, massive ice storm.  I don't see a major snow event now but I could definitely see a huge sleet or FZRA event.

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6 minutes ago, SnowGoose69 said:

It seems there are 3 options in that area. Slider with the high not likely pressing far enough south.  Thats either PL or RA.  Strong system with no wedge...rain.  Strong system with wedge, massive ice storm.  I don't see a major snow event now but I could definitely see a huge sleet or FZRA event.

This is a hyperbolic post on my part, but a couple days ago I was looking to see if there was a case where we saw a good winter storm with a similar setup as the current modeling (mainly looking for a case with the ridge off the west coast).  Here's the massive Atlanta ice storm from Jan 1973, which was a moderate snowstorm in NC.  Lots of similarities here.  Also, the low in E Canada originated from a system that tracked from Oklahoma and across the Great Lakes.  Of course, for every positive analog match, there are a 1000 that ended up as rain or cirrus clouds.

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kbymf6.gif

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15 minutes ago, NC_hailstorm said:

Another moderate wave 1 and wave 2 heat flux warming forecasted now on Berlin shortly after this potent one.So I don't think this PV and cold air mass is quite done moving yet in my opinion.

Carry on.

Much appreciated for your input, neighbor.

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37 minutes ago, Cheeznado said:

After backing off at 12Z the 00Z EPS has half the members with measurable snow in the ATL area. One is 12"- shades of the DGEX. Right now I am leaning in the direction of a minor nuisance event here.

 

No such thing as a minor nuisance event in Atlanta. 1/2" of snow would cause chaos. It's either no event at all, or it's a major event. Major meaning snow sticks to the ground and/or roads.

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1 minute ago, PackGrad05 said:

Another variable is the extremely warm antecedent temperatures.  Highs in the 70s on Tuesday will warm up the soil and asphalt considerably.  This will limit any accumulations.

No. It won't. We go over this every single year, soil temps can easily be overcome and have little to no effect on accums.

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