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November Med/Long Range Disco


WinterWxLuvr

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Models continue to go back and forth with long range ideas, and that is typical. But with the AO still so positive and expected to be positive into December, hard to believe it's going to turn very cold in the east soon. El Nino climate may win out here, but we will see!

I agree though I'm no long range guy.  I also see where the euro ens mean goes to a positive EPo along witht eh AO and NAO which if correct would lead to a really warm period towards the end of its run.  Luckily,  its at the end of the run so the next run may flip back to a colder look with the epo.  We need a negative EPO to try to offset the positive AO. 

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I agree though I'm no long range guy.  I also see where the euro ens mean goes to a positive EPo along witht eh AO and NAO which if correct would lead to a really warm period towards the end of its run.  Luckily,  its at the end of the run so the next run may flip back to a colder look with the epo.  We need a negative EPO to try to offset the positive AO. 

 

 

Both the GEFS/EPS have trended in the wrong direction over multiple runs. The previous cold idea for early Dec has all but vanished. IMO- it looks pretty ugly right now. H5 mean says hello pac zonal for all of the conus and Canada. Source region is flooded so if it were to happen like that the first week of Dec then a step back to cold will take a good bit of work. 

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Both the GEFS/EPS have trended in the wrong direction over multiple runs. The previous cold idea for early Dec has all but vanished. IMO- it looks pretty ugly right now. H5 mean says hello pac zonal for all of the conus and Canada. Source region is flooded so if it were to happen like that the first week of Dec then a step back to cold will take a good bit of work. 

Yeah with the broad positive height anomalies showing up in both models across much of Canada, and then losing the epo ridge, it is not a good look. I really never had any expectations for December though..pretty much like last December. Things could change, but as long as the PV stays intact and we continue to see persistently low heights poleward, outside of something transient its gonna tend be mildish around here.

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Heh, GFS has been pushing some interesting weather in a number of its recent runs around this time. Now we're "in range" for some weenie snow maps. 224 hours out is better than 384 lol

 

ETA: REMEMBER THE CAVEATS ;)

 

attachicon.gifGFS Total Snowfall Map.png

This signal has been showing up for late that weekend for a few days now. Still a long way to go though.

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Heh, GFS has been pushing some interesting weather in a number of its recent runs around this time. Now we're "in range" for some weenie snow maps. 224 hours out is better than 384 lol

ETA: REMEMBER THE CAVEATS ;)

GFS Total Snowfall Map.png

If northern Mississippi is getting 3"+, then we're definitely getting at least a half inch.

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Yeah, that always works out so well. 0z GFS still has something late next weekend...and then a stronger coastal around the 5th. Might be a window of about 10 days for something, but man the timing would have to be awfully good.

Well, we're getting to the time of year where it can happen, but hard to believe it will right now. Would be nice to sneak some small event in early if the rest of the near term is going to be crappy.

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We're "only" eight days out from that first cold front that the overnight runs have been advertising for a while. Now it includes a coastal a few days after that (definitely out in la la land and mainly rain here) but could this be a pattern shift for December? Can an expert chime in?

Obviously, not an expert, but hoping or expecting a pattern change at this point is too early in the season imho. A fluke is probably the best we can hope for at this point I believe.
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We're "only" eight days out from that first cold front that the overnight runs have been advertising for a while. Now it includes a coastal a few days after that (definitely out in la la land and mainly rain here) but could this be a pattern shift for December? Can an expert chime in?

 

Taken through time...these equations tend to have exponential error growth.

 

post-866-0-63451500-1448123865_thumb.png

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Which is why LR op runs can change so dramatically from run to run and why looking at an op run way out in time for specific details can be an exercise in futility. For longer range, ensembles are the way to go. As you probably already know Wonderdog, those use members that each have a slight difference that (hopefully)allow them to better compensate for the errors that inevitably present themselves over time. Even then, ensembles can be unstable at times.

 

 Ens means are good...but varying initial conds is still a crude and over avg'd way to account for inherent model error and lack of data. Also...outliers can be randomly good or bad.    

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12z GFS has something interesting that has popped up at 159 hours, there is energy in Canada that looks primed to dive down into the trough on the East Coast, might be interesting to see if it spins up a Miller B. This is highly unlike any other previous runs.

Call me crazy, but I'm not at interested to see if a Miller B can blow up. At all.

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12z GGEM at the end of its run looks interesting with a closed decent h5 low barreling eastward... and looks like a coastal is starting to form as well... though the 1028 H leaves something to be desired... but the 00z GGEM had the same idea at the end if its run with a blockade of H's to our north... so we shall see if it keeps showing up

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12z GGEM at the end of its run looks interesting with a closed decent h5 low barreling eastward... and looks like a coastal is starting to form as well... though the 1028 H leaves something to be desired... but the 00z GGEM had the same idea at the end if its run with a blockade of H's to our north... so we shall see if it keeps showing up

Was just looking at that. Interesting look. Overall there are hints in the guidance lately of a possible window for "something" in early Dec. We have seen much worse H5 looks than what the 12z GFS is advertising at the end of its run today.

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Call me crazy, but I'm not at interested to see if a Miller B can blow up. At all.

It depends on expectations. I always feel like miller b's get a bad rap in here. It's true they are not as favorable as miller a's here, with our south and west location, but we have had several notable miller b storms hit here. Feb 10 2010 to name a recent one. We often can get small to moderate sbows from them also which is fine but some here get upset when we get 3" and Boston gets 20. That's kinda climo though.
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It depends on expectations. I always feel like miller b's get a bad rap in here. It's true they are not as favorable as miller a's here, with our south and west location, but we have had several notable miller b storms hit here. Feb 10 2010 to name a recent one. We often can get small to moderate sbows from them also which is fine but some here get upset when we get 3" and Boston gets 20. That's kinda climo though.

They rightly get a bad rap. We luck into them on extremely rare occasions - certainly not often enough to look forward to them. They produce far more frustration for us than they do snow.

If we were to have a stout -NAO and one showed up in the models, then maybe I'd be more interested.

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It depends on expectations. I always feel like miller b's get a bad rap in here. It's true they are not as favorable as miller a's here, with our south and west location, but we have had several notable miller b storms hit here. Feb 10 2010 to name a recent one. We often can get small to moderate sbows from them also which is fine but some here get upset when we get 3" and Boston gets 20. That's kinda climo though.

Some bad memories for many here from failed miller b events. I actually did decently here in the Dec 2010 Boxing Day storm (about 5") but even that was well less than forecast. The eastern and NE areas in this subforum tend to do better overall in these events I suppose, but I can recall plenty of misses and under performers.

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