September Discusssion--winter bound or bust

[ORH_wxman]

The years I was in Ithaca typically featured snow cover thanksgiving to spring. I was there in feast times while you had famine years later.

 

 

I was there in 2 above average years too and one average year....only the monster stinker of '01-'02 was bad...the days with snow cover are good there...but the snow often melted back (or sublimated/compressed) to just a couple inches throughout the winter. Something that doesn't happen as often in ORH which is why their average snow depth in the winter is higher than ITH. Then there's the whole issue of how hard it is to get a 10"+ storm there vs here.

 

I mean, if it was Preble, NY instead of ITH, then I'd def be okay with the fluffier snow with the frequency and amounts which they get it

 

 

But its all personal preference...some prefer the more frequent smaller snows over the bigger snows. I actually thought I would before going to Ithaca, but then I felt differently after experiencing it...and that included a 100" winter there (they haven't had one since).

[powderfreak]

If it was that often, sure...lol.

 

Try getting 10" of fluff and then not much for 2 weeks or just flurries...then it sucks!!! I've lived both sides of the coin...the snow with some "meat" to it with pack retention in ORH and the ITH climate which averages a similar amount, but much fluffier and more frequent and less retention. You know what its like there...though comparing to Boston is not really on a level playing field...need to go to interior SNE to compare appropriately.

 

 

If I lived on the spine of the Green Mountains, I'm sure I'd love the fluff a lot more given its frequency there. As soon as someone discovers a job for me up there that pays as much as Boston does, then I'm all ears.

 

Yeah, the long dry spells in winter are what kill me....I know not many here seem to have an affinity for the daily 1-4 inch type stuff, but I enjoy the wintery feel you get with flakes in the air a lot of the time.  I would never trade fluff for a good ol' QPF bomb, but if the option is no-snow or meso-scale fluff, the fluff works.  Its not a preference for multiple small snowfalls over big ones...its enjoying the small ones between the big storms.  Ithica is probably different because they have trouble getting good synoptic storms, but most of New England is usually in the game for synoptic events often enough.

 

But now here's the philosophical question of the night.... for anyone to answer... if you were to get 1.5" of QPF, would you rather have that be 18:1 ratio or do you guys stick with your 7-10:1 cement?  27" of fluff of 13-15" or cement?

[ORH_wxman]

.

 

But now here's the philosophical question of the night.... for anyone to answer... if you were to get 1.5" of QPF, would you rather have that be 18:1 ratio or do you guys stick with your 7-10:1 cement?  27" of fluff or 13-15" or cement?

 

 

That probably doesn't matter as much...1.5" of qpf is a pretty big slab of liquid any way you serve it. For me personally, it would probably be a "flavor of the month" type deal...whatever I am craving at the time. If we've had a bunch of storms that winter without good dendrites, then I might crave 18 to 1 of awesome dendrites, but if we've had some redeveloper fluff bombs south of LI with less "meat" to them, then I might choose the paste-bomb that plasters everything. Sometimes I love a good deck destroyer.

[weathafella]

I was there in 2 above average years too and one average year....only the monster stinker of '01-'02 was bad...the days with snow cover are good there...but the snow often melted back (or sublimated/compressed) to just a couple inches throughout the winter. Something that doesn't happen as often in ORH which is why their average snow depth in the winter is higher than ITH. Then there's the whole issue of how hard it is to get a 10"+ storm there vs here.

I mean, if it was Preble, NY instead of ITH, then I'd def be okay with the fluffier snow with the frequency and amounts which they get it

But its all personal preference...some prefer the more frequent smaller snows over the bigger snows. I actually thought I would before going to Ithaca, but then I felt differently after experiencing it...and that included a 100" winter there (they haven't had one since).

Well daily les of a few inches for weeks capped by the blizzard of '66 which postponed finals influenced me...lol.

[Ginx snewx]

Retire to Bethel in winter, Westerly in summer.

in the works, for at least 25 years that has been my goal, give me 8 more years employed and it will happen, not so sure about the second part anymore

[ORH_wxman]

Well daily les of a few inches for weeks capped by the blizzard of '66 which postponed finals influenced me...lol.

 

 

Yeah that certainly helps the perception there.

 

 

What a great storm there. I met locals there who talked about that storm.

[powderfreak]

That probably doesn't matter as much...1.5" of qpf is a pretty big slab of liquid any way you serve it. For me personally, it would probably be a "flavor of the month" type deal...whatever I am craving at the time. If we've had a bunch of storms that winter without good dendrites, then I might crave 18 to 1 of awesome dendrites, but if we've had some redeveloper fluff bombs south of LI with less "meat" to them, then I might choose the paste-bomb that plasters everything. Sometimes I love a good deck destroyer.

Very true...that's sort of what I was wondering if people had a preference for paste vs. fluff if you knew the QPF was going to be the same. We are often comparing 6" of fluff to 6" of paste, and folks are obviously going to take the higher QPF amount whatever snow it falls as, haha. But given the same QPF, I wonder if there's a preference.

As you know, QPF is what creates snowbanks and snow with staying power...so I'd figure most people may not necessarily love paste over fluff, they just love the higher QPF that comes with paste storms usually. For me being a QPF queen, I'll take whatever option has the larger QPF, lol.

[OceanStWx]

Above 2,000' is a magical place

So is 500 mb.

[OceanStWx]

I was there in 2 above average years too and one average year....only the monster stinker of '01-'02 was bad...the days with snow cover are good there...but the snow often melted back (or sublimated/compressed) to just a couple inches throughout the winter. Something that doesn't happen as often in ORH which is why their average snow depth in the winter is higher than ITH. Then there's the whole issue of how hard it is to get a 10"+ storm there vs here.

 

I mean, if it was Preble, NY instead of ITH, then I'd def be okay with the fluffier snow with the frequency and amounts which they get it

 

 

But its all personal preference...some prefer the more frequent smaller snows over the bigger snows. I actually thought I would before going to Ithaca, but then I felt differently after experiencing it...and that included a 100" winter there (they haven't had one since).

My first winter there. That had some good retention for a time, with waist deep paths cut through sidewalks.

The pack there always had more of the wind swept feel than the deep CAD stuff though.

[ORH_wxman]

My first winter there. That had some good retention for a time, with waist deep paths cut through sidewalks.

The pack there always had more of the wind swept feel than the deep CAD stuff though.

 

 

Jan 2003 was pretty good...the 1/3 storm was actually fairly pasty. I was there on a winter session class. The Xmas storm had given some base already and then the 15" of higher QPF snow in the 1/3 storm really made a decent pack. The rest of the month was cold so the snow stuck around pretty well. That was one of the few stretches where they kept a deeper pack that felt more like what I was used to in ORH. There were other times it was deepish, but they were more fleeting...like after the March 2001 storm and at the end of January 2000.

[powderfreak]

My first winter there. That had some good retention for a time, with waist deep paths cut through sidewalks.

The pack there always had more of the wind swept feel than the deep CAD stuff though.

 

Interesting observation, but that's always how University of Vermont felt to me.  It sits at only 400ft (like most New England colleges it was up on a hill relatively to surrounding terrain), but was exposed to some degree and the Champlain Valley is always windy.  The snowpack there always had that drifty look to it, no matter how deep it got.  Especially later in 2007 after the Valentines Day Blizzard and St Patty's Day storm, the drifts were just larger than normal haha.  But it was a different flavor than the calm, deep snow you find in other places like mountain valleys where its a more even leveled thick layer of frosting.

[Ginx snewx]

I know a certain poster who is cringing at this discussion tonight, lol.

[CoastalWx]

Interesting observation, but that's always how University of Vermont felt to me.  It sits at only 400ft (like most New England colleges it was up on a hill relatively to surrounding terrain), but was exposed to some degree and the Champlain Valley is always windy.  The snowpack there always had that drifty look to it, no matter how deep it got.  Especially later in 2007 after the Valentines Day Blizzard and St Patty's Day storm, the drifts were just larger than normal haha.  But it was a different flavor than the calm, deep snow you find in other places like mountain valleys where its a more even leveled thick layer of frosting.

 

You could say the same for areas around here too. Makes sense as with every good storm, you are going to get wind. It's rare to have a uniform deep pack, but we actually managed to do that back in 2011 since we had multiple storms along with some rain to help flatten it out and solidify it.

[Damage In Tolland]

Could it actually be that we see 1-2 inches of rain tomorrow night? Models say so..ww'll see

[CoastalWx]

Could it actually be that we see 1-2 inches of rain tomorrow night? Models say so..ww'll see

It didn't look impressive to me.

[Damage In Tolland]

It didn't look impressive to me.

I doubted it too. Prob 1/4 inch type nonsense..Maybe south coast does better

[CoastalWx]

LOL what model has that? None do.

[ineedsnow]

What model shows that all the reliable models I looked at show nothing even close

Could it actually be that we see 1-2 inches of rain tomorrow night? Models say so..ww'll see

[dryslot]

So is 500 mb.

Where it always snows

[dryslot]

Somebody left out a decimal point

[Brian5671]

Upton's going for possible heavy rains in some of the storms down this way.   I'm sure it will be the usual hit or miss type stuff, but we'll have the heating of the day and the front coming at the right time.

[tamarack]

LOL no way. You do not get the same feeling for 3" of snow vs. 30". I love snow as well, but I always found that grass through an inch of snow is annoying. I don't know, something annoying seeing that grass still come through the snow. I just want to see it covered. Seeing grass might as well be bare in my eyes. Where I do appreciate 1-3" snowfalls a lot more, is if there is already snow OTG . Refreshers are always nice.

 

Somewhat date dependent.  Grass thru the snow on 12/20 is definitely annoying, but on 11/3 it offers a different vibe.  What's perfectly acceptable as an appetizer doesn't cut it for the main course.

[CoastalWx]

Chilly day here. Cloudy and hovering between 63-64.

[CoastalWx]

Somewhat date dependent.  Grass thru the snow on 12/20 is definitely annoying, but on 11/3 it offers a different vibe.  What's perfectly acceptable as an appetizer doesn't cut it for the main course.

 

That's probably more true up your way. Down here where we really don't have a continuous snowpack, you'll see the ground a lot more. When there is a good snowpack, refreshers are awesome, but those 1-2" deals where you still see the grass (esp 1") always leave me sort of saying..."c'mon...just a little more.."    I'll still that over no snow of course.

[tamarack]

But now here's the philosophical question of the night.... for anyone to answer... if you were to get 1.5" of QPF, would you rather have that be 18:1 ratio or do you guys stick with your 7-10:1 cement?  27" of fluff of 13-15" or cement?

 

For equal LE, that's an easy one to answer, and I'll use Dec. 2003 for an example.  On 12/6-7 we had 1.63" precip at temps near 20 (with winds 25G40), and on 12/15 we had 1.53" at temps in the teens and moderate winds, with neither event having any mixed precip.  The first storm dumped 24", the second 13" - they are (respectively) tied for 3rd most I've measured in my 43 Maine winters, and tied for 30th.  No competition.

[Zeus]

Welcome to the September* thread!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Here, "September" is read as "describe how you like your snow, even though we won't see any for another two months at the very least. We're all mad here. You must be mad, too, you wouldn't have come here."

[Typhoon Tip]

It's still September, guys ...

[dendrite]

9/30/92 bitches

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

Cool today. Suns out now so it will probably warm up some, but early fall feel out in full force today

[dryslot]

Leaf drop, Cider and apple picking, Oh my