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Baroclinic Zone

Summer 2020 Banter and random observations

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1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

Imagine being someone who had to stock the shelves at Target every day since March so housewives could browse for bathing suits and blenders having to listen to teachers demand extra special treatment just for them?

Sounds like a normal day in a non-union job vs. a job with a union, ha.

Every Target employee since the dawn of time has been saying "Can you imagine being able to negotiate for more paid time off or better health coverage instead of them just telling us to shove it?!"

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Just now, PhineasC said:

Plenty of folks packing themselves into poorly ventilated factories and warehouses so we can keep ordering crap online, however.

For sure.  I just think if I had a union I would use it to negotiate those terms. 

But yes this whole thing hasn't been "fair" and honestly life hasn't been "fair" for many people long before COVID. 

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I think school systems should plan for full-time remote learning, if they're not already.

The moment a teacher or student tests positive, they'll close down the school.  Maybe for only 2 weeks at a time, but that'll get tiresome by winter after a few bouts of having to shut down.

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Just now, powderfreak said:

For sure.  I just think if I had a union I would use it to negotiate those terms. 

But yes this whole thing hasn't been "fair" and honestly life hasn't been "fair" for many people long before COVID. 

Yup. Covid has simply exposed it. However, the ruling class and majority of our politicians don’t care. What is good for them and only them....everyone else, shut up and produce. 

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1 minute ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Yup. Covid has simply exposed it. However, the ruling class and majority of our politicians don’t care. What is good for them and only them....everyone else, shut up and produce. 

I haven't seen many of those loudly calling for schools to remain closed having much to say about those workers at Target or in the warehouses, however. Funny how that is happening...

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5 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Plenty of folks packing themselves into poorly ventilated factories and warehouses so we can keep ordering crap online, however.

Those other groups should have demanded hazard pay. Some got it actually because some of those workers were unionized and other companies voluntarily started offering hazard pay. But many people did not get it.

Schools are one of the worst though for environment. My wife’s classroom is poorly ventilated and has no windows. Packing a bunch of teenagers in there who will be lazy about keeping their masks on correctly is definitely a breeding ground for super spreader events. 

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If you told me that goods or whatever will go up 5% in order to help all those workers increase pay...I would have zero issues with it. I have to think a majority of the population would not mind either.  

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1 minute ago, CoastalWx said:

If you told me that goods or whatever will go up 5% in order to help all those workers increase pay...I would have zero issues with it. I have to think a majority of the population would not mind either.  

Well, since fair is fair, if we close the schools and parents have to take on a much larger share of educating their kids (not a bad thing), then let's lower taxes 5% to offset that increase in prices for goods. 

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2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I haven't seen many of those loudly calling for schools to remain closed having much to say about those workers at Target or in the warehouses, however. Funny how that is happening...

Personally I'd rather take my chances at an Amazon fulfillment center though than the High School classrooms I grew up in (maybe fire code now makes it so the windows can open?)... I still don't think any of those get the contact time person to person that you get in a school classroom with 30 people packed into a space smaller than your Randolph living room lol. 

But yes, everyone should be getting hazard pay.  I thought what we considered "essential businesses" was ludicrous from the start... essential business means access to all the luxuries Americans are used to...essential to living or not.

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Just now, ORH_wxman said:

Those other groups should have demanded hazard pay. Some got it actually because some of those workers were unionized and other companies voluntarily started offering hazard pay. But many people did not get it.

Schools are one of the worst though for environment. My wife’s classroom is poorly ventilated and has no windows. Packing a bunch of teenagers in there who will be lazy about keeping their masks on correctly is definitely a breeding ground for super spreader events. 

Especially when you have teenagers goofing off or making bets about who gets it first. Our kids aren’t raised in communism where they are soldiers, and all fall in line. Freedom to act anyway is great but certainly has its downfalls when that act is a detriment to others and the greater good. There is no perfect solution...someone will take issue with whatever is presented. 

My 4yr old son was supposed to go full time OT at his elementary school, to prep him for kindergarten next year, but we may decide to keep him at daycare instead. Only 10 kids in his daycare with 1 or 2 of the same teachers compared to the exposure of a bigger elementary school. Still undecided but why take the risk when we don’t have to. To those who have school age kids, though, not an easy decision. 

It’s tough all the way around. 

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1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

Well, since fair is fair, if we close the schools and parents have to take on a much larger share of educating their kids (not a bad thing), then let's lower taxes 5% to offset that increase in prices for goods. 

Well we know that won't happen...lol. I'm just thinking about the low wage jobs. If I paid a few more bucks on groceries and goods..it wouldn't bother me.

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9 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

If you told me that goods or whatever will go up 5% in order to help all those workers increase pay...I would have zero issues with it. I have to think a majority of the population would not mind either.  

Most would sign off on that. The problem is the higher prices wouldn’t trickle down to increasing low paid jobs...it’s straight to the corps bottom line greasing the pockets of shareholders. Maybe they’d throw a quarter down to the minions like Uncle Scrooge. 

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1 minute ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Most would sign off on that. The problem is the higher prices wouldn’t trickle down to increasing low paid jobs...it’s straight to the corps bottom line greasing the pockets of shareholders. Maybe they’d throw a quarter down to the minions like Uncle Scrooge. 

Yeah that's another story. Anyways, just me in my naive own little world.

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13 minutes ago, tunafish said:

I think school systems should plan for full-time remote learning, if they're not already.

The moment a teacher or student tests positive, they'll close down the school.  Maybe for only 2 weeks at a time, but that'll get tiresome by winter after a few bouts of having to shut down.

That's the real issue here.  As soon as someone tests positive, parents will start pulling their kids anyway.  Half the school won't show up the next day if it's on the news that 4 people are positive in a school of 2,000... then what do you do?

How disruptive is that when every school with a case is closing, then reopening, some parents don't send kids, some parents have to send kids because they have no other option... then the way the rumor mill works in these suburban towns... probably only need a rumor of someone having COVID to pretty much shut a school down.

Much different than a factory or private business.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/us/schools-reopening-indiana-coronavirus.html

 

One of the first school districts in the country to reopen its doors during the coronavirus pandemic did not even make it a day before being forced to grapple with the issue facing every system actively trying to get students into classrooms: What happens when someone comes to school infected?

Just hours into the first day of classes on Thursday, a call from the county health department notified Greenfield Central Junior High School in Indiana that a student who had walked the halls and sat in various classrooms had tested positive for the coronavirus.

 

 

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There is no end game. Vaccine is a panacea but how long does it last,effective, one positive right? 

 

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6 minutes ago, Dan said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/us/schools-reopening-indiana-coronavirus.html

 

One of the first school districts in the country to reopen its doors during the coronavirus pandemic did not even make it a day before being forced to grapple with the issue facing every system actively trying to get students into classrooms: What happens when someone comes to school infected?

Just hours into the first day of classes on Thursday, a call from the county health department notified Greenfield Central Junior High School in Indiana that a student who had walked the halls and sat in various classrooms had tested positive for the coronavirus.

 

 

Are they still open?

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2 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Are they still open?

Don't know.  Such an awful situation.  There is just no real good answer.  My son is going into first grade now.  Last spring was tough with him being home all the time and my wife and I were working from home.  Luckily we are both able to do that, I know alot of other parents don't have that choice.  I commend the teachers in our school, they did the best they could with the time they had.

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1 hour ago, Ginx snewx said:

Hazard pay, millions of essentials should have gotten it since March. They supported us when we were locked down. Interesting that some are able to demand it while most have no say.

Do you support unions?  That’s one of the benefits...

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29 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

There is no end game. Vaccine is a panacea but how long does it last,effective, one positive right? 

 

I guess we can hope that it will last long enough to where by the time most people get it this can just fizzle out...and at the same time start becoming weaker. But obviously this leads to a ton of questions but it's just hope I suppose.

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11 minutes ago, NorEastermass128 said:

Do you support unions?  That’s one of the benefits...

I was a chief union steward for 11 years, so yea but let me tell you a story about corruption someday. Union officials and politicians make good bed partners. Aint what you think

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There is no end game. Vaccine is a panacea but how long does it last,effective, one positive right? 
 
An article yesterday said that the percentage of people willing to get a vaccine as soon as it comes out has dropped to about 40%, down from 55% in April. Mostly cause people want to wait it out awhile before getting injected with a rushed to market vax. So the thought that the vax is the end all be all won't be the case even if very effective if not enough people don't get vaccinated.

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While we are giving out plaudits and hazard pay, I'd like to thank the utility workers and dpw crews out there busting ass today.  And their spouses at home with the kids trying to work remote, on down the line.

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2 hours ago, powderfreak said:

Not being asked to assume some risk?  You are packing a lot of bodies into extremely poorly ventilated, old school buildings for hours and hours at a time.  I don't blame teachers for looking for something other than the same ol' same ol' school day. 

I don’t blame them for looking for something other than the “same old same old”. And obviously it’s not going to be that. Do we really think an option on the table ever has been send them back and do nothing as far as precautions?

I’m all for fighting for better precautions and safety but it doesn’t seem like anything is going to be okay.

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1 hour ago, Lava Rock said:

An article yesterday said that the percentage of people willing to get a vaccine as soon as it comes out has dropped to about 40%, down from 55% in April. Mostly cause people want to wait it out awhile before getting injected with a rushed to market vax. So the thought that the vax is the end all be all won't be the case even if very effective if not enough people don't get vaccinated.

And even if it weren't rushed to market... What healthy person under 60 would choose to inject themselves with something where the long-term effects are unknown?

 

82/65

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4 minutes ago, tunafish said:

And even if it weren't rushed to market... What healthy person under 60 would choose to inject themselves with something where the long-term effects are unknown?

 

82/65

Someone who wants things to get back to normal? I’ll take it, somebody is going to have to in order for us to get back to some sort of normal. And I don’t think they’ll be administering something that’ll give you 5 heads in a year, I’m sure the risks will be low.

I do find it funny how everyone is clamoring for a return to normal and when push comes to shove a lot of folks are like “ehhhhh I’ll pass on the vaccine for now”. You really can’t have it both ways

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It's a personal choice for everyone, even though I certainly didn't phrase it that way.  Should have said "as a healthy person under 60, I personally wouldn't rush to get the vaccine..."

2 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Someone who wants things to get back to normal? I’ll take it, somebody is going to have to in order for us to get back to some sort of normal. And I don’t think they’ll be administering something that’ll give you 5 heads in a year, I’m sure the risks will be low.

I do find it funny how everyone is clamoring for a return to normal and when push comes to shove a lot of folks are like “ehhhhh I’ll pass on the vaccine for now”. You really can’t have it both ways

I agree, you can't have it both ways and I'm not sure those groups of people are the same, necessarily.  Personally I'm not clamoring for a return to normal.  Yes, everything is more difficult now than it used to be.  I've accepted that this is a marathon and it'll be years before things are normal, even if they make it back to normal at all. But we're humans and we adapt.  Some more easily than others.

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