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February to Forget Volume 2 - 2020


TalcottWx
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Just now, MJO812 said:

Some good signs in the mid to long range on the gefs and eps.

Ridge is starting to pop in the west with help from the mjo.

Winter is done...it's over. 

It's already mid-February. We aren't going to get any help from the Arctic whatsoever...by the time any changes take place we'll be into the spring season...should changes take place. Given how strongly positive the AO will become again the PV isn't just going to weaken and breakdown in a few days or even a few weeks. Even with a somewhat favorable Pacific the Arctic signal is just too strong. 

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Just now, MJOatleast7 said:

curious that the NAO forecast isn't so extreme...especially considering Dennis (915 mb tomorrow approaching Iceland-wtf) and the general pressure field hanging around there until Sunday

I think it's b/c the strongest anomalies are a bit outside of the NAO domain...although it's possible that Hurrell's NAO method (which I believe has a larger domain) would reflect a much more positive value than the CPC

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42 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

I honestly don’t kno how any snow lovers are alive and breathing in SE Areas

this is London/ Seattle weather 

at least 2012 had a beautiful sunny summer stretch in February 

 

Heading to Manchester and London at the end of the month, so this is just getting me ready for what's in store!  Maybe I'll get lucky and find an early English spring, if there is such a thing.

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54 minutes ago, weatherwiz said:

Winter is done...it's over. 

It's already mid-February. We aren't going to get any help from the Arctic whatsoever...by the time any changes take place we'll be into the spring season...should changes take place. Given how strongly positive the AO will become again the PV isn't just going to weaken and breakdown in a few days or even a few weeks. Even with a somewhat favorable Pacific the Arctic signal is just too strong. 

Bad assumptions,  things can change in a week.

global_nao_2020021300.png

global_ao_2020021300.png

global_epo_2020021300.png

global_pna_2020021300.png

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11 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Bad assumptions,  things can change in a week.

The index itself can change very quickly...absolutely, however, the implications of those changes don't happen as quickly.

But sort of dissecting that AO drop it appears it's related to some ridging which slides through the southern sections of the AO domain and isn't necessarily related to the structural change of the AO...which is going to be the most important when wanting a full-scale long-duration pattern change. 

Even during that projected AO drop the PV still looks to stay relatively intact and strong. 

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12 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Everyone is declaring it over. Premature.

been reading tweets and posts about changes coming since the end of December...it's now mid-February. spring training has started...we're almost a month away from the equinox...we are now exiting peak climo and slowly hedging towards spring climo. 

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23 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

Everyone is declaring it over. Premature.

Plenty of time for what? You live in the NYC metro area lol. In 2 weeks, it’s March then you have until 3/15 to do something then nothing but a very anomalous event will get it done. We’ve been hearing “good signs” “pattern flip” “ blocking” “ridge In the west” “-AO/-NAO” “-EPO” “on the long range models” since the beginning of December

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10 minutes ago, weatherwiz said:

been reading tweets and posts about changes coming since the end of December...it's now mid-February. spring training has started...we're almost a month away from the equinox...we are now exiting peak climo and slowly hedging towards spring climo. 

I'm not sure what baseball's spring training has to do with the weather but met winter ends in 16 days and then it's spring.  It still snows in spring.  Yeah I don't think deep winter is coming but I don't think we're done for cold and snowy days.  It gets more difficult after mid-March (a month from now) but March's have produced before and no one can say with certainty that this one will or won't.  The pessimists will say no while people like myself will look at the empirical data when it's all said and done and see if it did.

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3 minutes ago, mreaves said:

Going to celebrate Liverpool's title? :whistle:

Hopefully to celebrate City's third straight Carabao Cup Title at Wembley!  Also going to the Manchester Derby the following weekend.  Oh yeah, congrats on finally winning the Premier League after 30 years!  Just kidding, they've had an incredible season.  Cheers!

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Just now, HimoorWx said:

Hopefully to celebrate City's third straight Carabao Cup Title at Wembley!  Also going to the Manchester Derby the following weekend.  Oh yeah, congrats on finally winning the Premier League after 30 years!  Just kidding, they've had an incredible season.  Cheers!

Thanks.  Unfortunately, I don't have any other Premier League fans in my office anymore to cheer with or gloat over so I have to take my chances when I can.  Have fun on your tripo

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26 minutes ago, weatherwiz said:

The index itself can change very quickly...absolutely, however, the implications of those changes don't happen as quickly.

But sort of dissecting that AO drop it appears it's related to some ridging which slides through the southern sections of the AO domain and isn't necessarily related to the structural change of the AO...which is going to be the most important when wanting a full-scale long-duration pattern change. 

Even during that projected AO drop the PV still looks to stay relatively intact and strong. 

We don't need the PV to drop down, or be disturbed to have a big snow event in SNE.  You know this.   I think most are just hoping for a good Warning/ SECS at this point.

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1 minute ago, MetHerb said:

I'm not sure what baseball's spring training has to do with the weather but met winter ends in 16 days and then it's spring.  It still snows in spring.  Yeah I don't think deep winter is coming but I don't think we're done for cold and snowy days.  It gets more difficult after mid-March (a month from now) but March's have produced before and no one can say with certainty that this one will or won't.  The pessimists will say no while people like myself will look at the empirical data when it's all said and done and see if it did.

Moreso just another indicator that we're headed towards spring. 

But I totally agree with your post...I'm not saying we won't see any more snow or snow events at all...hell we've had snow events into April before lol...but what I'm just saying is (which agrees with what you said) deep winter is not coming. If we are going to get snow events as we get into March we are likely going to have to rely on something crazy to happen (thread the needle type deal?...I certainly don't think we will get any pattern support for it. 

If the PV wasn't as potent and strong as it was I would argue against my thoughts...but we've seen before when the PV is this strong it just doesn't break down. It's signal is just too overwhelming too to have other teleconnections overpower it. Here's 50mb zonal winds since February 1...the westerlies are through the roof. It would take a great deal of time for these to weaken and even when that occurred there is typically a 2-4 week lag between the response on the PV

Composite Plot

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Just now, WinterWolf said:

We don't need the PV to drop down, or be disturbed to have a big snow event in SNE.  You know this.   I think most are just hoping for a good Warning/ SECS at this point.

oh of course not...however, the influences it is having on the pattern...nearly controlling the entire hemispheric pattern is just making that probability extremely low. Just look at how much trouble we've had. I think there have been instances this winter where the PAC was actually not bad at all but the Arctic was just so unfavorable. 

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1 hour ago, HimoorWx said:

Heading to Manchester and London at the end of the month, so this is just getting me ready for what's in store!  Maybe I'll get lucky and find an early English spring, if there is such a thing.

The odd thing about cold rain in London is that it feels right.  When I was in London and Manchester (my sister studied at U of Manchester for a while), it added to the vibe to have it like 48F with -RN.  It fits all your preconceived notions of what English life is, haha.  Like being in a movie, walking down a narrow cobblestone street and ducking into a small pub for a pint to get out of the rain.

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