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January Med/Long Range Disco Part 2


WinterWxLuvr

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I'll go with late Jan 66. Top analog d8+ and #3 d11+.

Yeah have been some consistent 1966 analogs. The look isn't all that diff than dec 2009 with the blocking but that's only one part.
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It is looking more and more likely that the all out flip is in process. All ens guidance keep the AO neg for the next 15 days. ENSO+ climo favors a -AO in Feb. I would safely say now that any long range guidance that shows a breakdown in blocking is either rushing it or missing it. 

 

Looks like our window this month will be long enough that we'll get things right at some point but bad luck is always a factor. 

Agreed, Bob.  The simplistic viewing of the graphs is really interesting in that things have progressed pretty much in lock step with '82-'83, with a shift to the left of a few weeks.

 

It might just be nothing more than a coincidence, but it's really interesting to look at.  If it continues along the same path, then we may have a good window for some time in a much more climo-favored period.

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I agree with this, but I think you can also see patterns in the misses.

 

For sure.  My comment was simply a small joke for dtk.  There is great value in pushing model runs further out into the extended and then bouncing verification tests against the output.  That reanalysis is integral to the hard work the model physics guys do every day to make guidance better and better.  

 

The value of making those runs public is minimal though evidenced by stuff like the 18z runs for D10+ from last night trending on Twitter...

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Gfs looks mostly like last night's cmc. 0-2". Best run yet. I totally agree wit wxusaf. Best vort pass yet. Low is north but enough dynamics to give us more than a snow shower for sure.

Like I said in my post last night I wasnt being blinded and looking past Tues / Wed truly appears models hint at what "may" happen 10 days out then starts to pick up the real deal 3 maybe 4 days out. I would not be surprised at all to see this storm Tues / Wed uptick

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Check this out...not bad

 

Last week of Jan 66

 

attachicon.gifjan66.JPG

 

6z GEFS d6-10 mean

 

attachicon.gifgefs5d.JPG

yeah not bad. I posted a 66 period and a 41 period in the last week.. both had very similar blocking configs and both had quality cold/snow within a certain range. i know 09/10 is close so people will run to that in addition to other obvious reasons. when it comes to intensity of blocking it might be an OK mention because it was about as big as blocking gets but still. tho actually 12z GFS probably looks closer to Feb 2010 than Dec 2009 now.. shifting pieces. could have similar results i suppose but running toward a top end record period is iffy heh.

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Agreed, Bob.  The simplistic viewing of the graphs is really interesting in that things have progressed pretty much in lock step with '82-'83, with a shift to the left of a few weeks.

 

It might just be nothing more than a coincidence, but it's really interesting to look at.  If it continues along the same path, then we may have a good window for some time in a much more climo-favored period.

 

It is really interesting. Especially in the face of one nasty strat pv. I know there is a physical barrier of sorts between the trop and strat but way more often than not a consolidated, cold, and strong strat pv usually means bad stuff irt sustained blocking. 

 

On the flip side it's really interesting how the anomalous + period once again fit the 45-60 run before a flip. It's not always a flip. Sometimes just a relaxation but the more I track this stuff, the more confidence I have in the 45-60 period of anomalous + or - running their course. There are exceptions like everything else but when trying to figure stuff out 1-2 months down the road, it's useful knowledge back up with stats. 

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This is not really a similar setup to 2009/10. The block is uber but that's about it. Block is key of course but again suppression is arguably more favored this go.

My point about suppression and the 09/10 comparison was really with regard to how the models handled the blocking, which really impacted how far north the storm could come. Over time that year the big ones gradually trended north on the GFS, but there were concerns about suppression right up to the short term I believe.

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yeah not bad. I posted a 66 period and a 41 period in the last week.. both had very similar blocking configs and both had quality cold/snow within a certain range. i know 09/10 is close so people will run to that in addition to other obvious reasons. when it comes to intensity of blocking it might be an OK mention because it was about as big as blocking gets but still. tho actually 12z GFS probably looks closer to Feb 2010 than Dec 2009 now.. shifting pieces. could have similar results i suppose but running toward a top end record period is iffy heh.

 

 

I just look at it (like you do) irt how favorable a setup is in general. Regardless of how big analog storms were. General looks and specific storms are miles apart. Right now it looks like we have the highest probability of a good storm in quite some time. But at this range you can't really say much more than above normal chances. Certainly not much above. And absolutely not a MECS.

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Two takeaways from the gfs:

Next Tuesday looks like a legit chance for accumulation.

Last two weeks of January do not look boring. I think everyone of us would have signed up for a two week period with a strong -AO/nao, cold air, and active stj. Let's see what happens .

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My point about suppression and the 09/10 comparison was really with regard to how the models handled the blocking, which really impacted how far north the storm could come. Over time that year the big ones gradually trended north on the GFS, but there were concerns about suppression right up to the short term I believe.

Well to be honest I hadn't looked at this run yet. It does have some similarities to Feb 2010 now that I dig in. At least around the mid-mo period. So, maybe didn't need to be so adamant esp given Dec 2009 has shown up repeatedly in analogs too. It's just such a high bar and this Nino is a rager. Overall I think it's true we're better off seeing stuff south than north at range but strong Ninos do have plenty of suppression history so it's not necessarily clear cut. 

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Two takeaways from the gfs:

Next Tuesday looks like a legit chance for accumulation.

Last two weeks of January do not look boring. I think everyone of us would have signed up for a two week period with a strong -AO/nao, cold air, and active stj. Let's see what happens .

 

CMC is good again. .5 - 2" through the area. Max stripe just west of the cities. 

 

ETA:

 

Here's a snip from 6z Wed. Best period is 8pm to 2am. A little light stuff falls starting @ 2pm tues but inconsequential. 

 

post-2035-0-30353200-1452273990_thumb.jp

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Well to be honest I hadn't looked at this run yet. It does have some similarities to Feb 2010 now that I dig in. At least around the mid-mo period. So, maybe didn't need to be so adamant esp given Dec 2009 has shown up repeatedly in analogs too. It's just such a high bar and this Nino is a rager. Overall I think it's true we're better off seeing stuff south than north at range but strong Ninos do have plenty of suppression history so it's not necessarily clear cut. 

We have a historic nino and a historic block - why not compare to historic storms :P

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Well to be honest I hadn't looked at this run yet. It does have some similarities to Feb 2010 now that I dig in. At least around the mid-mo period. So, maybe didn't need to be so adamant esp given Dec 2009 has shown up repeatedly in analogs too. It's just such a high bar and this Nino is a rager. Overall I think it's true we're better off seeing stuff south than north at range but strong Ninos do have plenty of suppression history so it's not necessarily clear cut.

Mercy...The precarious position of our location can be maddening! So too much blocking suppresses (And by that you mean that too much keeps the storm too far south?) Well, looks like the forum mood will be just as precarious with each model run, lol
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We have a historic nino and a historic block - why not compare to historic storms :P

I was borderline rude, sorry. I actually mentioned 09/10 myself last night on Twitter even though I have cringed at mentions of it compared to this season all along.

 

Here's the Davis strait area compared

 

https://twitter.com/splillo/status/685337283617148928

https://twitter.com/splillo/status/685341450297413632

 

I guess in the end I think the nino/tropical influence is greater this year plus the look we've seen so far for a storm has a different type of origin which is arguably more complicated. Plus it gets beaten into your head over time as a forecaster to not run to historic events until you have to. Of course this is a weather forum and we all chase HECS here.... including myself.

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I was borderline rude, sorry. I actually mentioned 09/10 myself last night on Twitter even though I have cringed at mentions of it compared to this season all along.

 

Here's the Davis strait area compared

 

https://twitter.com/splillo/status/685337283617148928

https://twitter.com/splillo/status/685341450297413632

 

I guess in the end I think the nino/tropical influence is greater this year plus the look we've seen so far for a storm has a different type of origin which is arguably more complicated. Plus it gets beaten into your head over time as a forecaster to not run to historic events until you have to. Of course this is a weather forum and we all chase HECS here.... including myself.

You weren't borderline rude.  I threw the last post with the emoticon in there just so you wouldn't take the statement too literally.  I guess I am always looking for the big storm similarities because that's really what excites me about winter weather.  I don't mind waiting the typical 5-10 years for the historic ones.  So I guess it's all a matter of perspective.  In any case, I find the historic block and historic nino to be a combination we've never seen in recorded history, so I guess it's really anybody's guess how it pans out.  But it is certainly intriguing to have two massive titans in play (historic nino and historic blocking).  Truth is nobody knows where the shortwaves in the southern stream will be or how strong they will be at this lead, as typically that is the last piece of the puzzle to reveal itself. 

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