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December warm NOT White


PB GFI

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I agree Chris I think day 1 -10 in Jan are still AN, and it will skew the month to finish AN but I expect this to begin to step down between the 10 and 15 .

 

Yeah, we'll have a better idea once we see what the models are showing by late December into January.

It's very challenging trying to time a change in a pattern that has been so persistent since May.

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many a late starting winter had late season snowfalls...1923-24 and 1965-66 come to mind...I still think it won't be a shut out but the first part could be...

 

Here's the El Nino stats that you posted from the other thread with the early near shut outs bolded.

 

 

Jan 15th...After...total

1963-64......24.0"......20.7"......44.7"

1965-66.........T.........21.4"......21.4"

1968-69........8.0"......22.2"......30.2"

1969-70......11.7"......13.9"......25.6"

1972-73.........T...........2.8"........2.8"

1976-77......15.5"........9.0"......24.5"

1977-78........5.6"......45.1"......50.7"

1979-80........5.5"........7.3"......12.8"

1982-83........4.0"......23.2"......27.2"

1986-87........1.1"......22.0"......23.1"

1987-88......14.9"........4.2"......19.1"

1991-92........0.7"......11.9"......12.6"

1994-95........0.2"......11.6"......11.8"

1997-98.........T...........5.5"........5.5"

2002-03......12.6"......36.7"......49.3"

2004-05........3.0"......38.0"......41.0"

2006-07..........T........12.4"......12.4"

2009-10......13.2"......38.2"......51.4"

2014-15........3.2"......47.1"......50.3"

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NYC has a shot at beating it's warmest December 20-31 temperature if we can max out the potential.

 

12/20  60 in 2002

12/21  65 in 2013

12/22  71 in 2013

12/23  66 in 1990

12/24  63 in 1996

12/25  64 in 1982

12/26  63 in 1982

12/27  63 in 1949

12/28  65 in 2008

12/29  70 in 1984

12/30  65 in 1984

12/31  63 in 1965

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24C above normal is almost +40F...that would be a daily of like 80/68, unthinkable for XMAS but possible this year. GFS is probably a bit too aggressive on the torch, but it has consistently shown this.

Perhaps NYC will see only its second ever low temperature at or above 60° during meteorological winter. The first occasion was 12/22/2013 when the minimum temperature was 61°.

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24C above normal is almost +40F...that would be a daily of like 80/68, unthinkable for XMAS but possible this year. GFS is probably a bit too aggressive on the torch, but it has consistently shown this.

It keeps increasing it which is just insane.

 

Today also marks the 6th day in row with a high of 60 or greater and also the first time I believe that NYC did not drop below freezing in the first half of December.

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It keeps increasing it which is just insane.

 

Today also marks the 6th day in row with a high of 60 or greater and also the first time I believe that NYC did not drop below freezing in the first half of December.

In 2001 Dec 16 was the first 32 low.  And in 1998 we went till Dec. 22, for the first 32, I believe.    We got our first 32 in Nov,, despite it being the warmest Nov. ever.

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That's a 9-10 day forecast so there's plenty of room for error but all models have been aiming at another very warm period that week.

I do think mid 60s are probably a lock but there's a good chance it'll be even higher than that.

 

Yeah, definitely think a warm period is on the way once again.  Wouldn't surprise me if 70's popped up as well.

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In 2001 Dec 16 was the first 32 low.  And in 1998 we went till Dec. 22, for the first 32, I believe.    We got our first 32 in Nov,, despite it being the warmest Nov. ever.

I forgot 98 took so long. Of course it did eventually get cold that month and we had snow on christmas eve. This month just looks relentless. Unless NYC gets below this weekend they may not have another shot til Jan.

 

I was in Chicago in 98-99 and I remember the warmth in Nov/Dec and then the drastic shift to frigid cold right before christmas followed by the new years blizzard

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I just put the CFS through it paces and I did not see any untoward cold till mid-Feb.!   Rather than worrying about the latest initial 32,  I hope  UncleW  reminds us of the records for fewest days with lows of 32 and under  and highs of 32 or less.  This is going to come in handy, the way it looks at this juncture.

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This month is likely to blow away the Dec 2001 warmest month but some 4+ degrees if models are correct.

Whatever departure slips that'll occur this weekend will be made up and added onto quickly last 8-9 days of month.

 

NYC has a shot at the first calendar year with a -10 or lower and +10 or higher month.

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This month is likely to blow away the Dec 2001 warmest month but some 4+ degrees if models are correct.

Whatever departure slips that'll occur this weekend will be made up and added onto quickly last 8-9 days of month.

We are only going back down to normal this weekend. So it will not hurt our departures

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I believe there will be talk of changing the 30 year normal (updated every 5 years) to a 20 year normal (updated every other year) because we are obviously chasing a moving target.  It makes no sense to keep hearing mostly above normal or below normal a majority of the time for any given parameter.. Remember from statistics, if the mean changes by a small amount, the extremes change by probably five times as much over the 30 year span.  So a .10 change in the 30 year mean, could result in a .50deg. rise in the all time highs over that time, and corresponding increase in the lowest temps   A one degree mean value increase would mean everything might shift upwards by a full 5 degrees.     So our new range in NYC could be +3 to 109, looking at a recent 30 year period.

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