bluewave Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 10 hours ago, Roger Smith said: Ranking tables normally account for ties and the case mentioned would be 11th warmest, after five tied at 6th warmest. It would not or at least should not be ranked seventh warmest. Some tables including CET differentiate by second decimals not visible in the table. The apparently tied months are marginally separated by these unprinted second decimals. In some ranking tables, it is up to you to establish ties, the table may be printed without ties identified. Most commonly, that kind of table will have the tied years listed in chronological order. But with everyone tweeting their own versions of climate stats, it is wise to find out whether they respect conventional ranking protocols or not. Also a top ten from a record of thirty years is obviously a bit easier to establish than a top ten from 155 years like NYC or 183 like Toronto. Another source of minor confusion in at least one prominent set of ranks (CET) is the practice of leaving the warmest rank blank until it happens, for example, this is what you see if you click on monthly ranks for CET ... at the bottom of the rankings where they place the warmest months, you find 1st (ranks on right, the ranks on left are in the sense of coldest of 355 in their records) blank for July to December ... further up the table you need to remember that what appears to be 40th warmest August is actually 39th warmest August. (EXCERPT of CET monthly rankings) 355 6.5 1686 6.9 1961 8.0 2022 10.2 1796 13.5 1868 16.4 1818 18.4 1808 18.0 1990 15.6 1780 12.5 1968 8.9 1881 7.3 1857 10.6 1990 11 356 6.6 1898 6.9 2019 8.1 1734 10.2 1944 13.5 1919 16.6 1775 18.4 2013 18.1 1955 15.6 1999 12.6 1959 9.1 1817 7.3 1988 10.6 1999 10 357 6.7 2008 6.9 2022 8.2 1750 10.3 1987 13.5 1947 16.8 1858 18.5 1995 18.2 1911 15.7 1760 12.7 1831 9.2 2022 7.4 1843 10.6 2017 9 358 6.7 1983 7.0 2002 8.2 1961 10.3 1893 13.5 1784 16.9 1798 18.5 1921 18.3 1747 16.0 1795 12.7 1995 9.2 1730 7.4 1828 10.6 1949 8 359 6.8 1975 7.1 1903 8.3 1990 10.3 2014 13.6 1992 16.9 1976 18.6 1976 18.3 2003 16.0 2021 12.8 1921 9.3 1743 7.5 1710 10.7 2018 7 360 6.9 1733 7.1 1945 8.3 1948 10.3 1798 13.6 1727 16.9 1762 18.7 1852 18.6 1947 16.1 2016 12.8 2022 9.4 1938 7.6 1733 10.7 2011 6 361 7.0 2007 7.2 1794 8.4 2012 10.5 1943 13.7 1808 17.0 2023 18.8 1783 18.6 1975 16.3 1949 12.9 2006 9.4 2015 7.7 1852 10.8 2020 5 362 7.1 1834 7.2 1998 8.4 1997 10.5 2020 13.8 1788 17.1 1822 19.2 2018 18.7 2022 16.3 1865 13.0 2005 9.5 1818 7.9 1974 10.9 2006 4 363 7.3 1796 7.3 1990 8.8 2017 10.6 1865 13.8 1758 17.3 1826 19.4 1983 19.0 1997 16.6 1729 13.1 1969 9.5 2011 8.1 1934 11.0 2014 3 364 7.3 1921 7.5 1869 9.1 1938 11.3 2007 13.9 1848 18.0 1676 19.8 2006 19.1 1995 16.9 2006 13.2 2001 9.9 1994 9.6 2015 11.1 2022 2 365 7.6 1916 7.9 1779 9.2 1957 11.9 2011 15.1 1833 18.2 1846 --- 2023 --- 2023 --- 2023 --- 2023 --- 2023 --- 2023 --- 2023 1 That’s why dense rank sorting for temperature records gives a much better perspective.https://www.voltactivedata.com/blog/2016/12/rank-dense-rank/ What if there are 5 contestants whose score is 100? How will we decide among them? One plausible way, in the absence of other deciding factors, would be to list all 5 as number one, awarding 5 first place prizes. If the first two scores are both 100, and the next is 99 is the contestant with score 99 the second or the third? In a baseball league the contestant with 99 would be third. In a contest where we care about scores more than contestants who achieve the scores, the 99 would be the second score. This might happen if we were looking at high temperatures in cities, and we care about the temperature numbers more than the cities that attained them. For shorthand in this note, call the first ranking the baseball ranking, and the second the temperature ranking The NWS is New York uses dense rank sorting for top 10 temperature records. So there can be more than 10 years attaining a top 10 for warmest or coldest. But they haven’t updated for the numerous top 10 warmest months since they last updated in 2021. https://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/warmcoldmonths.pdf https://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/warmcoldyearsmonths.pdf 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uofmiami Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 58 in Syosset & 57 in Muttontown this morning. Seems outside UHI areas it was 50s for everyone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWCCraig Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, bkviking said: In Smithtown I had a low of 56°. It has to be years since it was this cool in midsummer around here. It was 56 degrees at ISP on this day just 2 years ago in 2021 50's in July aren't that abnormal. Used to have as many sub 60 degree nights as 90 degree days 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoSki14 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 17 minutes ago, TWCCraig said: It was 56 degrees at ISP on this day just 2 years ago in 2021 50's in July aren't that abnormal. Used to have as many sub 60 degree nights as 90 degree days Yeah 50s were commonplace in July not that long ago even in the city but they're an increasingly rare occurrence now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWCCraig Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 4th longest streak of 80+ days came to an end yesterday. It's been more uncomfortably humid this past July than most 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psv88 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 58 this morning. 50s in July happen, nothing unusual. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Lovely weather 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACRUS Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 78 / 54 off a low of 56.. Another gorgeous dry day. Low - mid 80s hot spots could sneak in an 87 or so but just a really nice out with partly sunny skies by the pm. The western ridge is staked in between PHX and Dallas Trough into the northeast with strong N/NW flow. More of the same to open the month Tuesday dry and low humidity near to below normal. By Thu (8/3) the flow is turning more southerly and so up goes the humidity. Fri (8/4) - the coming weekend is warm , humid and back comes storms chances. More towards a tropical transition. Where and when the sun is out it is quite warm with a hot airmass nearby and moving up on the sw flow by Mon 7th - 9th with next 90s potential. Beyond there the Western Atlantic Ridge builds west forces trough to back into the GL with humid , warm and stormy flow long the east cost. Towards the end of next week heights and ridging into the east could heat it up more. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACRUS Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Records: Highs: EWR: 103 (1954) NYC: 102 (1933) LGA: 97 (1954) Lows: EWR: 56 (1932) NYC: 57 (1914) LGA: 62 (1956) Historical: 1715: Spanish treasure ships, returning from the New World to Spain, encountered a hurricane during the early morning hours on this day. Eleven of the twelve ships were lost near present-day Vero Beach, Florida. 1949: Lightning struck a baseball field at Baker, Florida during a game. The shortstop and third baseman were killed instantly. 1976 - A stationary thunderstorm produced more than ten inches of rain which funneled into the narrow Thompson River Canyon of northeastern Colorado. A wall of water six to eight feet high wreaked a twenty-five mile path of destruction from Estes Park to Loveland killing 156 persons. The flash flood caught campers, and caused extensive structural and highway damage. Ten miles of U.S. Highway 34 were totally destroyed as the river was twenty feet higher than normal at times. (David Ludlum) (The Weather Channel) 1986 - The temperature at Little Rock, AR, soared to 112 degrees to establish an all-time record high for that location. Morrilton, AR, hit 115 degrees, and daily highs for the month at that location averaged 102 degrees. (The Weather Channel) 1987 - The deadliest tornado in 75 years struck Edmonton, Alberta, killing 26 persons and injuring 200 others. The twister caused more than 75 million dollars damage along its nineteen mile path, leaving 400 families homeless. At the Evergreen Mobile Home Park, up to 200 of the 720 homes were flattened by the tornado. (The National Severe Storms Forecast Center) 1987 - Afternoon highs of 106 degrees at Aberdeen, SD, and 102 degrees at Ottumwa, IA, and Rapid City, SD, established records for the date. It marked the seventh straight day of 100 degree heat for Rapid City. Baltimore, MD, reported a record twenty-two days of 90 degree weather in July. Evening thunderstorms produced golf ball size hail at Lemmon, SD, and wind gusts to 80 mph at Beulah, ND. (The National Weather Summary) (Storm Data) 1988 - Twenty-one cities in the north central U.S. reported record high temperatures for the date, including Sioux City, IA, with a reading of 107 degrees. The reading of 105 degrees at Minneapolis, MN, was their hottest since 1936. Pierre and Chamberlain, SD, with highs of 108 degrees, were just one degree shy of the hot spot in the nation, Palm Springs, CA. (The National Weather Summary) 1989 - Overnight thunderstorms soaked eastern Kansas and western Missouri with heavy rain. Four and a half inches of rain was reported at Nevada, MO. Evening thunderstorms in Oklahoma produced wind gusts to 75 mph at Covington. Six cities in the north central U.S. reported record high temperatures for the date, including Williston, ND, with a reading of 105 degrees. (Storm Data) (The National Weather Summary) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACRUS Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, TWCCraig said: It was 56 degrees at ISP on this day just 2 years ago in 2021 50's in July aren't that abnormal. Used to have as many sub 60 degree nights as 90 degree days 14 of LGA;s record lows in July are in the 60s., 1 at EWR and 0 at NYC all 50s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psv88 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, SACRUS said: 14 of LGA;s record lows in July are in the 60s., 1 at EWR and 0 at NYC all 50s. LGA shorter record period 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 17 hours ago, bluewave said: Probably due to the higher pressure east of New England turning the flow more onshore since 2015. Newark has had 3 top 5 years for 90s since then. JFK hasn’t had any top 5 years since then. JFK needs westerly flow for a high number of 90° days. Time Series Summary for NEWARK LIBERTY INTL AP, NJ - Jan through DecClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Number of Days Max Temperature >= 90 Missing Count 1 2010 54 0 2 2022 49 0 - 1993 49 0 3 1988 43 0 4 2021 41 0 - 2002 41 0 - 1991 41 0 5 2016 40 0 - 1983 40 0 - 1959 40 0 Time Series Summary for JFK INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, NY - Jan through DecClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Number of Days Max Temperature >= 90 Missing Count 1 2010 32 0 2 1983 26 0 3 2002 21 0 4 1971 18 0 - 1949 18 0 5 2005 17 0 - 1991 17 0 This matches up with my experience too, nothing even close to 1983, 2002 and 2010! I take it neither NYC nor LGA has had any top 5 90+ days since then either, Chris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 32 minutes ago, psv88 said: 58 this morning. 50s in July happen, nothing unusual. Yep, in July in August. Did we all forget that it was in the 40s in June? Now that was unusual. I remember mornings in August when it was close to getting into the 40s (low of 50) when I was outside viewing the Perseids, the skies were very clear, no haze, felt like early fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, TWCCraig said: 4th longest streak of 80+ days came to an end yesterday. It's been more uncomfortably humid this past July than most July is supposed to be hot and dry, August is usually the month when it gets really humid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, TWCCraig said: 4th longest streak of 80+ days came to an end yesterday. It's been more uncomfortably humid this past July than most 1966 and 2010 fit the pattern of the hot and dry July and they had MUCH more extreme heat than anything we have had recently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClimateChanger Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 hours ago, bluewave said: That’s why dense rank sorting for temperature records gives a much better perspective.https://www.voltactivedata.com/blog/2016/12/rank-dense-rank/ What if there are 5 contestants whose score is 100? How will we decide among them? One plausible way, in the absence of other deciding factors, would be to list all 5 as number one, awarding 5 first place prizes. If the first two scores are both 100, and the next is 99 is the contestant with score 99 the second or the third? In a baseball league the contestant with 99 would be third. In a contest where we care about scores more than contestants who achieve the scores, the 99 would be the second score. This might happen if we were looking at high temperatures in cities, and we care about the temperature numbers more than the cities that attained them. For shorthand in this note, call the first ranking the baseball ranking, and the second the temperature ranking The NWS is New York uses dense rank sorting for top 10 temperature records. So there can be more than 10 years attaining a top 10 for warmest or coldest. But they haven’t updated for the numerous top 10 warmest months since they last updated in 2021. https://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/warmcoldmonths.pdf https://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/warmcoldyearsmonths.pdf IMO, dense ranking makes little sense for most climatological data. The important takeaway in climate ranking isn't how many times an specific, unique value has been achieved, it's how a given year compares to prior years. If there were seven warmer years, then the next highest should be in 8th - regardless of whether there were only 5 unique values higher. But anyways, the implication from the original response that led to this thread isn't correct either. Rankings that are tied are denoted with an asterisk on the map. If there are three years in fifth place, then it will show 5* for the ranking. The next highest on those SERCC maps would be 8th place, as they use traditional ranking. It's not really that important, however, as there typically aren't that many ties as you get into the extreme values in the dataset. There's generally more extremes/outliers at the tails. Obviously, occasionally there will be 2 or 3 years tied. But it's much more frequent to have many years with the same value near the means and median of the dataset. Sometimes in the longer datasets, there might be 5 or 6 tied years near the middle. Not really relevant when talking about top 5 values. Even though, it's common to say normal isn't relevant and it's always either hot or cold. That isn't actually true. The reality is the highest percentage of years are typically around the mean/median (even though that's less true today in a warming climate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibertyBell Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, TheClimateChanger said: IMO, dense ranking makes little sense for most climatological data. The important takeaway in climate ranking isn't how many times an specific, unique value has been achieved, it's how a given year compares to prior years. If there were seven warmer years, then the next highest should be in 8th - regardless of whether there were only 5 unique values higher. But anyways, the implication from the original response that led to this thread isn't correct either. Rankings that are tied are denoted with an asterisk on the map. If there are three years in fifth place, then it will show 5* for the ranking. The next highest on those SERCC maps would be 8th place, as they use traditional ranking. It's not really that important, however, as there typically aren't that many ties as you get into the extreme values in the dataset. There's generally more extremes/outliers at the tails. Obviously, occasionally there will be 2 or 3 years tied. But it's much more frequent to have many years with the same value near the means and median of the dataset. Sometimes in the longer datasets, there might be 5 or 6 tied years near the middle. Not really relevant when talking about top 5 values. Even though, it's common to say normal isn't relevant and it's always either hot or cold. That isn't actually true. The reality is the highest percentage of years are typically around the mean/median (even though that's less true today in a warming climate). Yes, please get rid of "averages" etc, I would much rather see a range of normal values within 1 SD be used for that rather than a single number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, TheClimateChanger said: IMO, dense ranking makes little sense for most climatological data. Not sure why you say that. It gives you the 10 highest temperatures for the month which is all that we really are concerned with in compiling a temperature record for a given location. The first table below is ranked by year. The 2nd table is dense rank and shows the 10 highest temperatures and the months. Rank for ten warmest years Time Series Summary for WESTCHESTER CO AP, NY - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Mean Avg Temperature Missing Count 1 1999 78.5 1 2 2013 77.0 0 - 2010 77.0 0 4 2020 76.9 0 5 2022 76.8 0 - 2019 76.8 0 7 1966 76.7 0 - 1955 76.7 2 9 2011 76.6 1 10 2023 76.4 2 - 2012 76.4 0 Dense Rank 10 warmest temperatures Time Series Summary for WESTCHESTER CO AP, NY - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Mean Avg Temperature Missing Count 1 1999 78.5 1 2 2013 77.0 0 2 2010 77.0 0 3 2020 76.9 0 4 2022 76.8 0 4 2019 76.8 0 5 1966 76.7 0 5 1955 76.7 2 6 2011 76.6 1 7 2023 76.4 2 7 2012 76.4 0 8 2016 76.3 0 8 1983 76.3 1 9 1952 76.2 0 9 1949 76.2 0 10 1995 76.0 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACRUS Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Made it to 80 now more clouds and 78 /55. Great day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee59 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Looks like Central Park will end up at 79 for July average. Today being 85-66. This actually gives the Park a July temperature of 79.048, so I assume they round it off to 79. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee59 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 My low this morning was 59.9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doncat Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 July here will finish tied for 7th warmest in 46 years....Rainfall was 6.69". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 West Point finishes with the most extreme rainfall around the region. Time Series Summary for WEST POINT, NY - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Total Precipitation Missing Count 1 2023 18.12 3 2 1897 13.05 0 3 2016 11.02 0 4 1945 10.21 0 5 1960 9.64 0 6 2018 9.27 0 7 1996 9.00 0 8 1984 8.65 0 9 1975 7.91 0 10 1994 7.72 0 - 1938 7.72 0 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee59 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, bluewave said: West Point finishes with the most extreme rainfall around the region. Time Series Summary for WEST POINT, NY - Month of JulClick column heading to sort ascending, click again to sort descending. Rank Year Total Precipitation Missing Count 1 2023 18.12 3 2 1897 13.05 0 3 2016 11.02 0 4 1945 10.21 0 5 1960 9.64 0 6 2018 9.27 0 7 1996 9.00 0 8 1984 8.65 0 9 1975 7.91 0 10 1994 7.72 0 - 1938 7.72 0 West Point got twice as much in July as I got in May, June and July combined. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Under bright sunshine, New York City saw the temperature top out at 85°. As a result, July finished with a mean temperature of 79.1°, which was 1.6° above normal. Fair and pleasant days coupled with low humidity will continue through at least midweek. No significant hot weather appears likely through the first week of August. As has often occurred in areas witnessing prolonged sieges of heat in recent years, extreme heat will likely rebuild later in the week in the U.S. Southwest. The ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly was +3.0°C and the Region 3.4 anomaly was +1.2°C for the week centered around July 26. For the past six weeks, the ENSO Region 1+2 anomaly has averaged +3.17°C and the ENSO Region 3.4 anomaly has averaged +1.05°C. El Niño conditions have developed and will likely continue to strengthen through at least the summer. The probability of an East-based El Niño event has increased. The SOI was +5.35 today. The preliminary Arctic Oscillation (AO) was -0.060 today. On July 29 the MJO was in Phase 8 at an amplitude of 0.472 (RMM). The July 28-adjusted amplitude was 0.303 (RMM). 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACRUS Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 7/31 EWR: 87 New Brnswck: 85 LGA: 85 TEB: 85 NYC: 85 PHL: 85 BLM: 83 JFK: 83 ISP: 83 TTN: 83 ACY: 82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestBabylonWeather Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 Where did summer go?! Not liking this. Going to the Catskills Saturday. A high of 73?! September vibes. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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