Winter 2020 New England Banter and General Obs

[TheSnowman]

This is right now #2 for THE KING for Worst Winter of All-Time.  Beating even 2006-2007.  2011-2012 will never be matched because not only did we get Little Snow, OR that half the snow fell in October, but for God's sake we had MORE Tree damage from that than Every Hurricane in my lifetime.  So I couldn't even enjoy the 1 storm, plus it melted so quickly since it was October, AND there were sticks and branches and trees all over it.  That winter will Always be #1, unless we get a winter with a Total of Less than 10" with less than 3 storms.  

[HIPPYVALLEY]

5 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

At least 11/12 had an all timer anomalous event before season even began here, I know not out east, but...that’s what it will take this season to beat that winter. Need a huge event to soften the blow now.

Yeah, a region wide SECS would be nice.

 Today was fun but there was all of five forum members that were enjoying it. 

I like seeing everybody excited for a storm!

[SouthCoastMA]

Id actually take 2012 over this year. Slightly more total snow this year but all of that came in Nov and early December. That season produced a storm with 11" in late January...so that's the winnah. Not everyone got that storm..so yeah I don't expect anyone to share that sentiment

 

[CapturedNature]

1 hour ago, dendrite said:

C'mon...we all know what he means and that it isn't literal. There's no need to put lipstick on a pig. For many in SNE it's been below normal snow and well above normal temps. IOW, a non-existent winter for your standards.

Pig or no pig, it's still winter.  Mild or not they are still winter months.

1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

Maybe he’s sugar high on maple syrup. It’s been non existent with record warmth and near record low snows since mid December. But hey it’s still winter! 

I don't know how many times I and others can point out how crappy the weather has been been with the absence of long term cold and all the cutters but it's still happening this winter.  That's the very reason that many are upset is because we're having all this crappy weather during winter.  If this time period is not winter, why would people be upset by the lack of snowy, cold weather?  And what else would you call it?

This is why I brought up the WSI because it lets you empirically compare one winter to another and one site to another.  Your numbers up in NNE are actually within an average percentile and mild down here.

[CapturedNature]

5 minutes ago, TheSnowman said:

This is right now #2 for THE KING for Worst Winter of All-Time.  Beating even 2006-2007.  2011-2012 will never be matched because not only did we get Little Snow, OR that half the snow fell in October, but for God's sake we had MORE Tree damage from that than Every Hurricane in my lifetime.  So I couldn't even enjoy the 1 storm, plus it melted so quickly since it was October, AND there were sticks and branches and trees all over it.  That winter will Always be #1, unless we get a winter with a Total of Less than 10" with less than 3 storms.  

It's #3 for me, at least on my record.  It would probably be #4 in my life beyond 2012, 2002 and 1980.  I never want to repeat 2012 again.  I lost so much money that year it took me years to recover.  Not good yet many would wish us to go through that again....

[powderfreak]

2 hours ago, MetHerb said:

Not sure how you can say that.  Met winter is December, January and February regardless of the weather.  What else would you call it?  Sure it's a crappy winter but it's still winter.  Also, despite that map, locations in NNE haven't done half bad snowfall wise either.

I've mentioned this before but it's a tool that I really like because it lets you objectively compare one winter/location with another and that's the winter severity index.  It takes temperatures, snowfall and snow depth and length of season into account.  It starts the first day and ends the last day of measurable snow or a daily max temp of 32 or less.  It assigns points for max temps, min temps, snowfall and snow depth.  You add them up and get the total number of points for a winter and then you can look at the percentile that the winter lines up and determine empirically if it was a mild, average or extreme winter for that location.  What's cool about that is that you can compare one location to another, not on points but on percentile of the total.

Take a look at this map and you can see how different locations are lining up.  It also explains the data a little more.

https://mrcc.illinois.edu/research/awssi/indexAwssi.jsp

Bottom line, you can't assess the complete winter until all the data is in and then it's not based on just one data point.  Even if it's the mildest winter, it's still a winter.

FWIW, I'm currently at 377 points, well within the mild category and #32 out of 35.

The odd thing is having Rutland be one of the indicators of winter in VT... and they don’t do any snow measurements there.  So not sure how they are calculating it then?  There’s no snowfall or snowpack data from KRUT, yet that’s the station they choose?

“At the very least, the severity of a winter is related to the intensity and persistence of cold weather, the amount of snow, and the amount and persistence of snow on the ground. The Accumulated Winter Season Index (AWSSI) was developed to objectively quantify and describe the relative severity of the winter season.”

[CapturedNature]

3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

The odd thing is having Rutland be one of the indicators of winter in VT... and they don’t do any snow measurements there.  So not sure how they are calculating it then?  There’s no snowfall or snowpack data from KRUT, yet that’s the station they choose?

“At the very least, the severity of a winter is related to the intensity and persistence of cold weather, the amount of snow, and the amount and persistence of snow on the ground. The Accumulated Winter Season Index (AWSSI) was developed to objectively quantify and describe the relative severity of the winter season.”

You'd have to ask them where they get the data but it must include the snow data because it contains points for it.  Perhaps they use a nearby station?  Who knows, you'd have to ask them.  I just find it a useful comparison tool instead of subjective "this winter was better or worse than this winter" type comments.  Then again apparently we are not in winter...lol

[backedgeapproaching]

14 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

The odd thing is having Rutland be one of the indicators of winter in VT... and they don’t do any snow measurements there.  So not sure how they are calculating it then?  There’s no snowfall or snowpack data from KRUT, yet that’s the station they choose?

“At the very least, the severity of a winter is related to the intensity and persistence of cold weather, the amount of snow, and the amount and persistence of snow on the ground. The Accumulated Winter Season Index (AWSSI) was developed to objectively quantify and describe the relative severity of the winter season.”

There's a COOP in RUT that seems to have pretty good data going back 100 years or so. Like you said,they aren't getting any data from the airport snowfall wise.

[Ginx snewx]

30 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

The odd thing is having Rutland be one of the indicators of winter in VT... and they don’t do any snow measurements there.  So not sure how they are calculating it then?  There’s no snowfall or snowpack data from KRUT, yet that’s the station they choose?

“At the very least, the severity of a winter is related to the intensity and persistence of cold weather, the amount of snow, and the amount and persistence of snow on the ground. The Accumulated Winter Season Index (AWSSI) was developed to objectively quantify and describe the relative severity of the winter season.”

Must be using CoCorahs which is a part of NOHRSC

[CoastalWx]

CoCovirus?

[HIPPYVALLEY]

15 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

CoCovirus?

I want to see more WuFlu posts!  Good times! 

[Ginx snewx]

1 minute ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

I want to see more WuFlu posts!  Good times! 

Wutang wuflu

[USCAPEWEATHERAF]

Potential for Ocean Effect Snow, could be decent accumulations from HYA eastward.  Still a Friday event, need to watch next few days.

[dendrite]

Had some light drizzly/snizzly precip at home when I left, but we’re getting some big aggregates right now at CON. Haven’t looked at much yet, but just a quick glance at radar makes me think there’s some seeder feeder action. Just a hint of better echoes moving through is flipping it to snow. 

[dryslot]

Winter awakening.

[512high]

34F ASH, drizzle...............

[BrianW]

Daffodils are coming up all along the shoreline here. I have tons of stuff sprouting in my flowerbeds. Grass is greening up. Its pretty crazy. 

[Ginx snewx]

18 minutes ago, BrianW said:

Daffodils are coming up all along the shoreline here. I have tons of stuff sprouting in my flowerbeds. Grass is greening up. Its pretty crazy. 

They are gonna hate Fri Sat

[psv88]

Nice to see this forum melting down. Usually it’s NYC

[HIPPYVALLEY]

16 minutes ago, psv88 said:

Nice to see this forum melting down. Usually it’s NYC

 I’ve never seen it so bad in here.  

I can’t pass judgment on anyone because I have over 40” of snow this year but the melts have been many. 

[NorEastermass128]

It is just gawd awful out today. Dark, dreary, dense fog, drizzle, 39 degrees. I’m growing to hate winter. 

[HoarfrostHubb]

42 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

 I’ve never seen it so bad in here.  

I can’t pass judgment on anyone because I have over 40” of snow this year but the melts have been many. 

I don't recall you (or hardly anyone) being so awful in really bad years... 2015-2016 was bad, 2011-2012 was awful.  But people were ok about it.  The whole world is feeling tension I think.  Being upset about snow is illogical.

 

I hope that this isn't misunderstood to mean I think you are being awful or whiny.   My brain is a bit fried today and my wording seems off. 

 

[Typhoon Tip]

What's wrong with this picture ..

 

[Typhoon Tip]

8 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

I don't recall you (or hardly anyone) being so awful in really bad years... 2015-2016 was bad, 2011-2012 was awful.  But people were ok about it.  The whole world is feeling tension I think.  Being upset about snow is illogical.

 

I hope that this isn't misunderstood to mean I think you are being awful or whiny.   My brain is a bit fried today and my wording seems off. 

 

Mah... it's stimulation withdrawal syndrome  ( or is it 'withdraw' ?)  

The more dystopian entertainment people get, anything less makes them feel 'empty' because acclimation means they're not being accelerated to the same sense of urgency - which they use that drama to replace real values systemically missing from their lives ( as an add-on (btw)  ). 

Even in the histrionic din of upped dramatic storm frequency ...there's going to be  periods of relative offset quiescence ..and folks are just going to have to get the shakes we guess.  

[Spanks45]

9 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

What's wrong with this picture ..

 

CC preview?

[Typhoon Tip]

20 minutes ago, Spanks45 said:

CC preview?

Not sure about 'preview' per se ...but, when the whole hemispheric eye-balled integral results in solidly above normal heights, that becomes a hemispheric problem 

[Spanks45]

The climate is clearly doing some weird things, besides just warming up and has been evident for quite some time. The planet's "natural" defense against warming might be to try and refreeze the poles which might be what we are seeing from time to time (clearly bad for those who like snow here in New England), but obviously that has been trumped by crazy amount of warming that is happening. I see it as the planet releasing antibodies to help fight an infection that it has and helping to return it back to its natural state. In this case it is trying to fight something that it most likely won't be able to defeat. Just my 2 cents...

Long story short, winter seasons like this year and last, and 2011/2012 may become a more common occurrence as we go along. Not that blockbusters won't occur, they will probably occur more often than not (extremes will become more normal on both ends of the spectrum), until the snow just disappears completely around these areas and we all look like great plains during the dust bowl era...

 

[NorEastermass128]

42 minutes ago, Spanks45 said:

The climate is clearly doing some weird things, besides just warming up and has been evident for quite some time. The planet's "natural" defense against warming might be to try and refreeze the poles which might be what we are seeing from time to time (clearly bad for those who like snow here in New England), but obviously that has been trumped by crazy amount of warming that is happening. I see it as the planet releasing antibodies to help fight an infection that it has and helping to return it back to its natural state. In this case it is trying to fight something that it most likely won't be able to defeat. Just my 2 cents...

Long story short, winter seasons like this year and last, and 2011/2012 may become a more common occurrence as we go along. Not that blockbusters won't occur, they will probably occur more often than not (extremes will become more normal on both ends of the spectrum), until the snow just disappears completely around these areas and we all look like great plains during the dust bowl era...

 

Looking forward to that. 

[Ginx snewx]

44 minutes ago, Spanks45 said:

The climate is clearly doing some weird things, besides just warming up and has been evident for quite some time. The planet's "natural" defense against warming might be to try and refreeze the poles which might be what we are seeing from time to time (clearly bad for those who like snow here in New England), but obviously that has been trumped by crazy amount of warming that is happening. I see it as the planet releasing antibodies to help fight an infection that it has and helping to return it back to its natural state. In this case it is trying to fight something that it most likely won't be able to defeat. Just my 2 cents...

Long story short, winter seasons like this year and last, and 2011/2012 may become a more common occurrence as we go along. Not that blockbusters won't occur, they will probably occur more often than not (extremes will become more normal on both ends of the spectrum), until the snow just disappears completely around these areas and we all look like great plains during the dust bowl era...

 

https://www.americanwx.com/bb/forum/18-climate-change/

[dendrite]

2 hours ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Not sure about 'preview' per se ...but, when the whole hemispheric eye-balled integral results in solidly above normal heights, that becomes a hemispheric problem 

It's kinda been like that the entire 2000s though. There's a big +AO there though so north of the arctic circle is pretty much blue and the mid lats orange. I know you know this, but just sayin'.