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February Med/Long Range Discussion Part 2


WinterWxLuvr

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Thanks Ian. I knew it was pretty rare but just twice

In last 15 years even rarer. Better answer than from the guy who said "like last year"

It's what makes 1994 so special when we were already near 0 at dark

 

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to say that below 20 highs at DCA are common, just commenting on the absurdity of the arctic outbreaks we have had the past few years.

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The projected epo ridge on the 00z EPS is pretty sick.  EPS responding with a pretty cold look developing at the end of the run.  Not a perfect setup for snow but I think we will have our chances if that look holds.  The mean looks like strong cold highs would be nosing down into the central US with storms running underneath.  

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The projected epo ridge on the 00z EPS is pretty sick.  EPS responding with a pretty cold look developing at the end of the run.  Not a perfect setup for snow but I think we will have our chances if that look holds.  The mean looks like strong cold highs would be nosing down into the central US with storms running underneath.  

 

Mid Atlantic going out with a bang :-)

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The projected epo ridge on the 00z EPS is pretty sick. EPS responding with a pretty cold look developing at the end of the run. Not a perfect setup for snow but I think we will have our chances if that look holds. The mean looks like strong cold highs would be nosing down into the central US with storms running underneath.

once into late feb and March I don't worry about dry as much. Get cold down in here and that time of year you usually get something. At the least gradient type storms as the warmth tries to fight back a lot more that time of year.
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Since the PD3 thing is getting pretty ugly thought I would look towards "Next".  I cant post because its behind a paywall but the day 15 EPS from last night is anything but winters over...  this is what they look like.  Para euro ens look about the same and I can't see the precip or SLP but based on the H5 and 850's the para euro control run has a monster HECS type storm day 14-15 for our area.  Yea I know...its unicorn time range but at least its not showing winter over. 

post-2304-0-42245100-1455218417_thumb.pn

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I'm going for the storm after the storm after the storm. After Tuesday's rainer (because that's what it will be) there is eventually a warm front that moves offshore, but then there are reinforcing highs that come down, along with a southern stream impulse. 18z GFS has that stay suppressed, but if the leading high over the Atlantic at hr 264 ends up further north - and I think it might, then the LP that it shows developing over the Gulf could also come north and do something on the coast. All wish casting of course, but I don't see much else before then.

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I'm going for the storm after the storm after the storm. After Tuesday's rainer (because that's what it will be) there is eventually a warm front that moves offshore, but then there are reinforcing highs that come down, along with a southern stream impulse. 18z GFS has that stay suppressed, but if the leading high over the Atlantic at hr 264 ends up further north - and I think it might, then the LP that it shows developing over the Gulf could also come north and do something on the coast. All wish casting of course, but I don't see much else before then.

 

Just pointing out that the 12z GFS does exactly this, but too much so, so that the LP comes up the Blue Ridge.  A big swing from 18z, which is fine at this range.  I expect we'll see a variety of runners and suppressed solutions back and forth, but I'm still hopeful that we end up with a (snowy) compromise.

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last nights PARA Euro ensembles are really nice, by day 15 has the -EPO ridge on sterroids but also some ridging into Greenland. Looks like major EPO PNA ridge and slightly negative NAO. Trough over the east. Could do worse

12z eps is pretty brief with any warm up next week. D10 - 15 shows what is most likely another arctic shot thanks to the nasty epo ridge. It looks like a repeat of the current pattern. Lol

Doesn't look like we are getting rid of the WAR anytime soon. Which is a bummer if it goes down like that. Maybe the nao flexes just enough to get some neg anoms to our NE. Either way it looks like a fairly significant late FEB cold shot is on the table.

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last nights PARA Euro ensembles are really nice, by day 15 has the -EPO ridge on sterroids but also some ridging into Greenland.  Looks like major EPO PNA ridge and slightly negative NAO.  Trough over the east.  Could do worse

GFS has the EPO but keeps a raging positive NAO and above normal temps.

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I do wish there was more sign of nao help. That's the one peice missing. I still think we could pull off a gradient type storm in this pattern or maybe we get the nao to cooperate just once as the mjo cycles through cold phases.

The only reason why we had a blizzard was impressive AO blocking that broke down resulting in a classic Archambault event. We don't have any sign of similar blocking to come or a -NAO. Today's Euro MJO forecast has the MJO hitting a brick wall at Phase 8, then sinking toward the circle of death. If that MJO forecast holds, between that and no blocking, we're left with what? Cold/dry and warm/wet for the end of February. Short of a fluke or another SSW that does something other than send cold air down for a brief visit, I'm having a hard time believing that the new pattern, for lack of a better term, ends much differently than the 3 weeks since the blizzard. Just sayin'.
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The only reason why we had a blizzard was impressive AO blocking that broke down resulting in a classic Archambault event. We don't have any sign of similar blocking to come or a -NAO. Today's Euro MJO forecast has the MJO hitting a brick wall at Phase 8, then sinking toward the circle of death. If that MJO forecast holds, between that and no blocking, we're left with what? Cold/dry and warm/wet for the end of February. Short of a fluke or another SSW that does something other than send cold air down for a brief visit, I'm having a hard time believing that the new pattern, for lack of a better term, ends much differently than the 3 weeks since the blizzard. Just sayin'.

I agree that the pattern we will likely get won't be perfect and probably similar to the current one. But that said the patter hasn't been awful. We have had a few near misses this year that were more luck then bad pattern. The trough couldn't have been better this week but that front runner really messed it up. I think it will remain a flawed pattern but one with opportunities to hit with some luck. We scored twice late last year with a -epo and no nao help.
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The pacific gets pretty good again in the LR. Nice EPO ridge builds back. Not much help on the Atlantic side...still have the persistent WA ridge and not much happening with blocking where we want it. As far as comparisons to last winter, big difference irt the PAC driving the pattern in a strong Nino vs neutral like last year.  Still, could score a decent event or 2 with some good timing, but anything big and amped would probably be mild and wet.

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The pacific gets pretty good again in the LR. Nice EPO ridge builds back. Not much help on the Atlantic side...still have the persistent WA ridge and not much happening with blocking where we want it. As far as comparisons to last winter, big difference irt the PAC driving the pattern in a strong Nino vs neutral like last year.  Still, could score a decent event or 2 with some good timing, but anything big and amped would probably be mild and wet.

 

Maybe some Southern lows this time around, I still say there is potential the end of the month into early March. - AO may also trend more negative. The looks on the EPO and PNA are pretty aggressive looking out , and given that,  we might have a chance. 

 

On a related note, I read that a true PV split favors more of a -NAO , and also believe I read that contrary to what I originally thought, SSWEs and true reversals at 10 mb , are more likely in a La Nina. 

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Maybe some Southern lows this time around, I still say there is potential the end of the month into early March. - AO may also trend more negative. The looks on the EPO and PNA are pretty aggressive looking out , and given that,  we might have a chance. 

 

On a related note, I read that a true PV split favors more of a -NAO , and also believe I read that contrary to what I originally thought, SSWEs and true reversals at 10 mb , are more likely in a La Nina. 

No expert on the stratospheric stuff, but the general idea is perturbation/weakening of the PV up top is one way to get a -AO. I think in general a persistent -AO favors development of a -NAO.

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February 4th 1995 is the lead analog for day 8-14, if it means anything.

4 FEB 1995 started the coldest 5 day stretch of winter 94-95...which had featured warmth to record warmth for weeks upon weeks upon weeks up to that point. There was a brief but heavy snowfall of around 4-8" across the area on the 4th and then it got very cold. IAD bottomed out on the 6th (I believe) at -1F.

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This thread has been dead since the pd storm was given its own thread. I guess everyone is either focused on that or thrown in the towel on winter. I'm not there yet but I am discouraged that atlantic ridge don't budge. I wasn't really counting on that becoming a permanent feature. I'm not ready to say it's over but I would like to see signs of that improving in the next few days. Otherwise we need to hope for something like last March with a wave riding along a front. Anything digging will cut in that pattern. Still time to see it change

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This thread has been dead since the pd storm was given its own thread. I guess everyone is either focused on that or thrown in the towel on winter. I'm not there yet but I am discouraged that atlantic ridge don't budge. I wasn't really counting on that becoming a permanent feature. I'm not ready to say it's over but I would like to see signs of that improving in the next few days. Otherwise we need to hope for something like last March with a wave riding along a front. Anything digging will cut in that pattern. Still time to see it change

Systems keep funneling down from the NW like last year when we were in a nina.

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