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Jan 22-23 East Coast Storm Discussion


Wow

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It still ends up there and is too warm for a lot of NC. So now it's the stare down between the GFS and the Euro.

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Yeah, looks like another I-40 special with areas south changing over to rain at some point. About like 00z.

Given every other model is colder, I don't think we need to worry too much, but it's certainly a feasible solution.

In any case, we roll the dice again in six hours.

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So I think I've caught up on the 00z runs, correct me if I'm wrong but the GFS Op and ENS suite are more coastal while the Euro and EPS is more inland. The EPS in particular moved the mslp mean low from over the OBX to inland NC. The transfer location looks fine on the mean, we just need that low to be off the coast before Hatteras and there aren't any members showing that I believe if I recall correctly. If we see any trends for the SE we desperately need them by 12z. I don't see how the 00z Euro overnight got everyone excited for our area really, the 12z Euro yesterday was better. 12z had a more southern low transfer and south of hat, meant more snow for NC. Am I missing something? 00z Euro is basically DC's wishcast and verbatim as far as the surface low and snowfall, it was a huge trend north not south.

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06z GFS is south of the 0z run

 

Just a tad bit with the first low but after that its pretty similar to the 00Z, we need the new low on the coast to be 100 miles further SE at least from hrs 66-78....if the GFS is right with that low track then its mix to rain for 75% of NC for most of the event with some ice/snow front and back but that wont amount to much outside of the NW corner...

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So I think I've caught up on the 00z runs, correct me if I'm wrong but the GFS Op and ENS suite are more coastal while the Euro and EPS is more inland. The EPS in particular moved the mslp mean low from over the OBX to inland NC. The transfer location looks fine on the mean, we just need that low to be off the coast before Hatteras and there aren't any members showing that I believe if I recall correctly. If we see any trends for the SE we desperately need them by 12z. I don't see how the 00z Euro overnight got everyone excited for our area really, the 12z Euro yesterday was better. 12z had a more southern low transfer and south of hat, meant more snow for NC. Am I missing something? 00z Euro is basically DC's wishcast and verbatim as far as the surface low and snowfall, it was a huge trend north not south.

 

1000% agree. That low is WAY too close to the coast. Verbatim 0z Euro is rain storm with some chance for mixing sleet for eastern half of NC into SE Va.

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Big 12z runs today. RAH has not latched on to either of the models, so I would gather both are equally possible. Part of last nights discussion (..as all you already know): 

 

THE GFS AND ECMWF CONTINUE TO DIFFER
SOME...  ON HOW FAR SOUTH TO DIG THE UPPER LEVEL ENERGY... AND
RESULTANT DEVELOPMENT OF AN EVENTUAL PRIMARY COASTAL LOW ON FRIDAY
INTO FRIDAY NIGHT. THE LATEST ECMWF CONTINUES TO BE THE COLDER OF
THE TWO... WHICH MAKES SENSE AS IT TAKES A MORE SOUTHERN TRACK.
HOWEVER... THE GFS HAS TRENDED FURTHER SOUTH WITH IS TRACK OF THE
SYSTEM TOO. THE LATEST NAM IS SIMILAR... BUT KEEPS SURFACE TEMPS A
LITTLE COLDER THAN THE GFS.

 

No preference mentioned....

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Seems like some think that run of the Euro was worse for the Triangle, even though the totals on the ensembles look bigger for snow. And RAH is making it sound like it is going to be mostly freezing rain and rain. What's the deal?

RAH's forecast seems to be based off the GFS (or closely looks like it). At this point that makes since. Always easier to trend the forecast colder the next 24 hours. **and think about it; they always wait (stay conservative) to the last day to either trend colder or warmer. .   

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Hazardous Weather Outlook
HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOKNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG SC555 AM EST WED JAN 20 2016NCZ035>037-056-057-502-504-506-211100-ALEXANDER-IREDELL-DAVIE-CATAWBA-ROWAN-GREATER CALDWELL-GREATER BURKE-EASTERN MCDOWELL-555 AM EST WED JAN 20 2016THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR PIEDMONT NORTH CAROLINA ANDWESTERN NORTH CAROLINA..DAY ONE...TODAY AND TONIGHT.LIGHT PRECIPITATION WILL DEVELOP ACROSS THE FOOTHILLS ANDNORTHWEST PIEDMONT OF NORTH CAROLINA THIS MORNING ANDAFTERNOON...MAINLY AS LIGHT SNOW. THE SNOW MAY TRANSITION BRIEFLYTO A PERIOD OF LIGHT FREEZING RAIN LATE IN THE DAY OR THIS EVENINGBEFORE ENDING BEFORE MIDNIGHT. LESS THAN ONE INCH ACCUMULATION ISEXPECTED BEFORE THE SNOW TAPERS OFF. PATCHES OF BLACK ICE SHOULDBE EXPECTED LATE TONIGHT..DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...THURSDAY THROUGH TUESDAY...THURSDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME...FRIDAY...WINTRY MIX LIKELY. A LARGE AND STRONG LOW PRESSURESYSTEM IS EXPECTED TO BRING PERIODS OF HEAVY SNOW...SLEET...ANDFREEZING RAIN TO NORTH CAROLINA FOOTHILLS ON FRIDAY.PRECIPITATION IS FORECAST TO TRANSITION TO FREEZING RAIN DURINGTHE AFTERNOON AND EVENING. DAMAGING FREEZING RAIN ACCUMULATIONSMOST LIKELY NORTH OF INTERSTATE 40...SATURDAY...SNOW POSSIBLE. A MID LEVEL DISTURBANCE WILL TRACKACROSS THE REGION FRIDAY NIGHT INTO SATURDAY MORNING. ACCUMULATINGSNOWFALL IS EXPECTED TO DEVELOP DURING THE MORNING HOURS ANDCONTINUE THROUGH THE DAY. IN ADDITION...COLD TEMPERATURES WILLRESULT IN SLICK DRIVING CONDITIONS ON UNTREATED ROADS AND BRIDGES...SUNDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME...MONDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME...TUESDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME..SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...WEATHER SPOTTERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO REPORT SNOW AND ICE ACCUMULATIONSTO THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.$$

 

 

 

Hazardous Weather Outlook
HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOKNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG SC555 AM EST WED JAN 20 2016NCZ033-049-050-211100-AVERY-YANCEY-MITCHELL-555 AM EST WED JAN 20 2016...WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY IN EFFECT UNTIL 7 AM EST THURSDAY...THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA..DAY ONE...TODAY AND TONIGHT.PLEASE LISTEN TO NOAA WEATHER RADIO OR GO TO WEATHER.GOV ON THEINTERNET FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE FOLLOWING HAZARDS.   WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY..DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...THURSDAY THROUGH TUESDAY...THURSDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME...FRIDAY...WINTRY MIX LIKELY. A LARGE AND STRONG LOW PRESSURESYSTEM IS EXPECTED TO BRING PERIODS OF HEAVY SNOW...SLEET...ANDFREEZING RAIN TO THE NORTHERN NORTH CAROLINA MOUNTAINS ON FRIDAY.PRECIPITATION WILL TRANSITION TO PURE SNOW DURING THE EVENINGHOURS...SATURDAY...HEAVY SNOW LIKELY. NORTHWEST WINDS WILL DEVELOP INTHE WAKE OF LOW PRESSURE SATURDAY MORNING. ACCUMULATING SNOWFALLIS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE THROUGH THE DAY. IN ADDITION...COLDTEMPERATURES WILL RESULT IN SLICK DRIVING CONDITIONS ON UNTREATEDROADS AND BRIDGES...SUNDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME...MONDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME...TUESDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME..SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...WEATHER SPOTTERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO REPORT SNOW AND ICE ACCUMULATIONSTO THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.$$

 

 

Hazardous Weather Outlook
HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOKNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG SC555 AM EST WED JAN 20 2016NCZ070>072-082-SCZ009-211100-GASTON-MECKLENBURG-CABARRUS-UNION-YORK-555 AM EST WED JAN 20 2016THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR PIEDMONT NORTH CAROLINA ANDUPSTATE SOUTH CAROLINA..DAY ONE...TODAY AND TONIGHT.A PERIOD OF LIGHT SNOW IS POSSIBLE ACROSS THE PIEDMONT OF THECAROLINAS THIS AFTERNOON AND EARLY THIS EVENING. NO SIGNIFICANTACCUMULATION IS EXPECTED..DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...THURSDAY THROUGH TUESDAY...THURSDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME...FRIDAY...FREEZING RAIN POSSIBLE. A LARGE AND STRONG LOWPRESSURE SYSTEM IS EXPECTED TO BRING FREEZING RAIN TO THECHARLOTTE METRO AREA ON FRIDAY. ICE ACCUMULATIONS ARE FORECAST TOBEGIN FRIDAY MORNING AND CONTINUE INTO THE LATE AFTERNOON...SATURDAY...SNOW POSSIBLE. A MID LEVEL DISTURBANCE WILL TRACKACROSS THE REGION FRIDAY NIGHT INTO SATURDAY MORNING. ACCUMULATINGSNOWFALL IS EXPECTED TO OCCUR DURING THE MORNING HOURS. INADDITION...COLD TEMPERATURES WILL RESULT IN SLICK DRIVINGCONDITIONS ON UNTREATED ROADS AND BRIDGES...SUNDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME...MONDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME...TUESDAY...NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED AT THIS TIME..SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...WEATHER SPOTTERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO REPORT SNOW AND ICE ACCUMULATIONSTO THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.$$
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Forecasting nightmare for our area. That warm air can be a b**ch sometimes.

Looking at the latest NAM, KFQD 850 temps continue to make the downward progression to 0.0 during the heaviest qpf. A prefect FZRN sounding. However, if the CAD (which is noted might be stronger in their AFD) is a touch stronger.. Maybe it works out.

 

 

Official Guidance from NWS GSP for Western and Mountains of North Carolina

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG SC
410 AM EST WED JAN 20 2016




http://www.nws.noaa.gov/view/prodsByState.php?state=nc&prodtype=zone#ZFPGSP

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Seems like some think that run of the Euro was worse for the Triangle, even though the totals on the ensembles look bigger for snow. And RAH is making it sound like it is going to be mostly freezing rain and rain. What's the deal?

 

 

This link should explain it all Brick.

 

http://coolwx.com/cgi-bin/getbufr.cgi?region=NC&stn=KRDU&model=gfs&time=current&field=prec

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The 06z GEFS looks pretty similar to the 00z GEFS, though the clown map totals did increase some. It was a little wetter.

It ticked south, wetter, and colder at all levels. Clown maps are ridiculous.  Bullseye of over 20 inches in the NC Mountains on a mean!  Everything east of there is highly suspect due to mixing.  I will be looking at the RGEM to start to show the best breakdown of snow/sleet/freezing rain on tonight and tomorrows runs.  It seems to have the best algorithm for mixing issues in recent years.  These "snowfall" maps will not verify folks!  That doesn't mean that we wont have one humdinger of a storm.  Just don't expect to measure it with a yardstick! Here's what many NC folks in the I-40/85 corridor are looking at right now:

 

1) A few inches of snow possible

2) then an inch or two of sleet  

3) next is .1-.3 inches of freezing rain

4) finally, an inch or two of snow on top 

 

Classic Southeast MAJOR STORM in every way possible.  Look for wind and power outages too!  Get ready! Great sledding...just don't buy ingredient to make snowcream!

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Outside of what little interest exist in this room, the Euro solution is a non solution. We are at the point that if the GFS were going to Cave toward the euro I think we would've seen an indicator by now. Not saying i would dismiss the euro I'm just going to remain extremely reserved regarding our chances of seeing a significant snowfall in central North Carolina. I would love a 20 inch block buster as much as anyone but this is starting to look like a very wet Friday with maybe a couple of token inches on the backend.

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