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Fall Banter and General Discussion


Baroclinic Zone
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54 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

It doesn't make sense imo for Pfizer to greatly exaggerate the efficacy data because they are going to be going in front of the vaccine advisory board and the fda very soon. Independent scientists and the public will be able to see the data and make an objective decision for an EUA. 

Pretty much my thought. Releasing this info and then having it shredded in the next few weeks would be bad business.

It makes no sense for a company to release garbage vaccines. My guess is whoever gets it out there, it’s going to be fairly safe.

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Just now, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Pretty much my thought. Releasing this info and then having it shredded in the next few weeks would be bad business.

It makes no sense for a company to release garbage vaccines. My guess is whoever gets it out there, it’s going to be fairly safe.

These things take time for a reason. The vaccine isn't garbage its the potential effects and lengths of immunity that slow the process 

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Just now, Ginx snewx said:

These things take time for a reason. The vaccine isn't garbage its the potential effects and lengths of immunity that slow the process 

Yeah... ultimately it’s everyone’s personal choice. If it came out tomorrow, I’d get it if I had the chance, but that’s just me.

If this stands up to the reviews and science, hopefully people get it. 
 

It’s going to be a tough pill to swallow if everyone says we need to follow the science, and this thing gets approved and is given the green light by the science community and then people go “yeah I’m good, I’m not going to get it right now”

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2 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

 

It’s going to be a tough pill to swallow if everyone says we need to follow the science, and this thing gets approved and is given the green light by the science community and then people go “yeah I’m good, I’m not going to get it right now”

Lol, that is exactly what will happen.  People being people. 

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4 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Yeah... ultimately it’s everyone’s personal choice. If it came out tomorrow, I’d get it if I had the chance, but that’s just me.

If this stands up to the reviews and science, hopefully people get it. 
 

It’s going to be a tough pill to swallow if everyone says we need to follow the science, and this thing gets approved and is given the green light by the science community and then people go “yeah I’m good, I’m not going to get it right now”

I have a hard time seeing people who believe in science and the severity of the virus to suddenly say no to a vax. It’s the people who don’t believe in science, the virus, are anti-vaccine...that will be the issue. 

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On 11/7/2020 at 9:19 PM, natedizel said:

Iv noticed that. My neighbor already has their Christmas tree up. People looking for some joy in the world with covid and election stress.

 

On 11/7/2020 at 9:19 PM, HoarfrostHubb said:

Yeah. I know people who put up Christmas trees before Halloween this year.  Just to try to feel good

Wife & I just had this conversation and we'll likely be decorating next weekend. Just something happy.

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24 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

I have a hard time seeing people who believe in science and the severity of the virus to suddenly say no to a vax. It’s the people who don’t believe in science, the virus, are anti-vaccine...that will be the issue. 

Its a risk calculation at its most basic. I am more likely to get serious complications or die from an authorized vaccine or from covid over the next year or two?  

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1 hour ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

 

The NEW Messenger RNA technology does have me personally concerned about LT side effects given a completely different mechanism for action that has never been approved.  

This technology thou was always going to get the M RNA delivery system over the line first. 

A protein subunit delivery system vaccine  has arguably been the favorite by many experts when it comes to guessing which delivery system will have best shot so we shall see how much this data turns that on its head.

The reason the mRNA method is so attractive is because large amounts can be manufactured more quickly than a traditional protein based antigen approach. 

The mRNA vaccine has a lot of questions about the mechanism. Not really the mechanism that produces the antigen (spike protein) per se, but the cell types that take up the mRNA to begin with. What cell types take up the RNA? How long do those cells crank out antigen? How long does it take for that mRNA to degrade? Does the host cell die after a time? Is the antigen released from the cell or does the cell present the antigen as non self though MCH class II mechanisms?

I've tried to get answers for these questions, but to no avail. I know people at pfizer, and I've asked them directly. Either they wont say because of proprietary reasons, or they don't know. My feeling is a lot of the latter. Not knowing the answers to the above questions wouldn't necessarily make it unsafe. Safety data doesn't really hinge on knowing exact mechanisms sometimes, but it would be nice to know. 

 

As a healthy adult with zero underlying conditions, and the fact I've been out from under the bed for 6 months at work, in restaurants, on public transport, etc, I'll take my chances with the Rona for awhile longer until more people get dosed up with it and see if they grow extra limbs.

Lava Rock may know a little more since vaccines are more up his alley than mine. I'm an immunologist and pathologist, but I make cancer drugs, not vaccines.

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9 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I didn't think so, but he has a pic of Boston so I was wondering..lol. 

Derek Lowe, PhD is a medicinal chemist who writes a science blog call "In the Pipeline". He used to work at Vertex, but I think he changed jobs recently. He's still in Boston. Smart guy. He's written the blog for years.

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1 minute ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Derek Lowe, PhD is a medicinal chemist who writes a science blog call "In the Pipeline". He used to work at Vertex, but I think he changed jobs recently. He's still in Boston. Smart guy. He's written the blog for years.

Cool, never heard of him until now.

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4 minutes ago, NorEastermass128 said:

~255M...in the US based on population of 330M.

Assuming 70% of the population needs immunity to be effective...and it’s 90% effective as claimed.  Back of napkin math below:

330M*0.7= ~230M

230M/0.9= ~255M

Heh.... I’m not optimistic. Between the skepticism of the fast rollout and the already large (and growing) anti vaxx crowd in this country, that’s a large number to get too

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1 hour ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

The reason the mRNA method is so attractive is because large amounts can be manufactured more quickly than a traditional protein based antigen approach. 

The mRNA vaccine has a lot of questions about the mechanism. Not really the mechanism that produces the antigen (spike protein) per se, but the cell types that take up the mRNA to begin with. What cell types take up the RNA? How long do those cells crank out antigen? How long does it take for that mRNA to degrade? Does the host cell die after a time? Is the antigen released from the cell or does the cell present the antigen as non self though MCH class II mechanisms?

I've tried to get answers for these questions, but to no avail. I know people at pfizer, and I've asked them directly. Either they wont say because of proprietary reasons, or they don't know. My feeling is a lot of the latter. Not knowing the answers to the above questions wouldn't necessarily make it unsafe. Safety data doesn't really hinge on knowing exact mechanisms sometimes, but it would be nice to know. 

 

As a healthy adult with zero underlying conditions, and the fact I've been out from under the bed for 6 months at work, in restaurants, on public transport, etc, I'll take my chances with the Rona for awhile longer until more people get dosed up with it and see if they grow extra limbs.

Lava Rock may know a little more since vaccines are more up his alley than mine. I'm an immunologist and pathologist, but I make cancer drugs, not vaccines.

DNA vaccines and in this case mRNA vaccines would likely be taken up by myocytes (muscle cells of the arm). While not the optimal antigen  presenting cells (APC), they have the proper co-stimulatory molecules on their surface to present the vaccine antigens to T cells. More potent APCs would be interstitial dendritic cells and these would also be present, albeit to lower levels then muscle cells. Unless there is a secretion signal sequence encoded as part of the expressed spike protein for extracellular transport, the majority of the vaccine would be expressed intracellularly and loaded into Class I MHC for cellular CD8 T cell responses, but some vaccine antigen can and will be dumped extracellularly which would elicit the antibody response. There may be some microtissue trauma from needle injection which causes some minor inflammation, aiding in recruitment of immune cells. 

mRNA degrades pretty quickly even during "normal" bodily gene expression, but I think I recall hearing this vax is delivered in a liposome which provides enhanced protection against degradation.

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Just now, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Heh.... I’m not optimistic. Between the skepticism of the fast rollout and the already large (and growing) anti vaxx crowd in this country, that’s a large number to get too

I’m a little more optimistic. At the very least, if we can get older and more vulnerable populations to vaccinate, we’ll see the CFR decrease dramatically. Maybe young, healthy people won’t vaccinate and will still get it. But they’ll recover and not be able to spread it to vaccinated older, vulnerable populations. 

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