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January 22-23 Mid Atlantic Storm Thread #2 - No Banter


stormtracker

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Mix line gets close to DC (just south) on NAM at hr 84 but 1) it's the NAM at hr 84  :tomato: and 2) looks like that would be as far as it gets as the low starts to move off the NC coastline. Would be a 20+ inch solution likely... starts snowing around 72 hours (so 3 days to go).

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Just got a chance to look at the euro ens. They look solid. The "tick" south on the mslp panels is mostly just getting rid of a bunch of lows that went over the tidewater or into the bay (which are not good placements for the corridor). Everything is tighter now and honestly looks pretty damn good. 

 

I wish I could post euro maps to give a picture to this but the op run did some weird things with precip. The knife edge cutoff was very suspect IMHO. When there is a sub 990 tucked right into VA beach you typically don't see such a gradient. Then the progression gets weird with multiple lows. The ULL pass is still pretty good even with the south shift. 

 

I'm no longer worried about the op solution and won't be until I see it happen again a bunch of times. Which I personally doubt. 

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Just got a chance to look at the euro ens. They look solid. The "tick" south on the mslp panels is mostly just getting rid of a bunch of lows that went over the tidewater or into the bay (which are not good placements for the corridor). Everything is tighter now and honestly looks pretty damn good. 

 

I wish I could post euro maps to give a picture to this but the op run did some weird things with precip. The knife edge cutoff was very suspect IMHO. When there is a sub 990 tucked right into VA beach you typically don't see such a gradient. Then the progression gets weird with multiple lows. The ULL pass is still pretty good even with the south shift. 

 

I'm no longer worried about the op solution and won't be until I see it happen again a bunch of times. Which I personally doubt. 

Thanks for the analysis. I know GEFS were also somewhat south.. but not by much. Seeing consensus and fine tuning is what we will be doing. I do not want any more shifts south! 

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Just got a chance to look at the euro ens. They look solid. The "tick" south on the mslp panels is mostly just getting rid of a bunch of lows that went over the tidewater or into the bay (which are not good placements for the corridor). Everything is tighter now and honestly looks pretty damn good.

I wish I could post euro maps to give a picture to this but the op run did some weird things with precip. The knife edge cutoff was very suspect IMHO. When there is a sub 990 tucked right into VA beach you typically don't see such a gradient. Then the progression gets weird with multiple lows. The ULL pass is still pretty good even with the south shift.

I'm no longer worried about the op solution and won't be until I see it happen again a bunch of times. Which I personally doubt.

yea looking at the members the # of south members didn't actually go up. There have been about 10-15 out of the 52 each run. But we lost some of the crazy inland solutions that were mixing even up here. That moved the mean south a bit. Agree with funky look of op euro. I've remained mostly quiet because given my location people might just figure of course he thinks that but I was fairly confident we would see a south move day 3-4 and then a trend back north the last 48 hours. By that I don't mean bad for anyone here, when it's over with qpf Max over va and higher ratios over md and southern pa I think we all get crushed. Final axis of snow might resemble 83/96 or slightly south of those 2. This thing is going to be a juiced monster and qpf will adjust on the northern edge as usual. Euro has been digging too much lately also. We just saw it get schooled because of that. I think this whole forum is on a great spot for a change.
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Not sure if this was posted but found this interesting. Per http://wjla.com/news/local/top-10-highest-one-day-snowfall-totals-for-the-dc-region and http://www.weather.gov/lwx/winter_storm-pr#TopDaySnowfall (1-3 Day Totals)

 

Top 10 Highest One Day Snowfall Totals

 

Jan 28, 1922 - 21.0 inches
 
Feb 11, 1983 - 16.4 inches
 
Dec 19, 2009 - 15.0 inches
 
Feb 7, 1936 - 14.4 inches
 
Feb 19, 1979 - 14.0 inches
 
Feb 16, 2003 - 13.3 inches
 
Jan 7, 1996 - 13.0 inches
 
Feb 15, 1958 - 12.9 inches
 
Jan 29, 1966 - 12.0 inches
 
Feb 13, 1899 - 12.0 inches
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The NAM is basically useless for anything in this kind of storm.  I think by Thursday, it will be worth looking at to assess potential for convection in the deform band.  It has a HUGE positive bias on precip in heavy precip events (as I think most of us know), so be prepared for some epic NAMing's, but don't conflate that with reality. 

 

This past 12z run (or maybe tonight's 0z) is probably the last time I'd give the ensembles more weight than the Ops.  So, if the Euro Op continues to be on the southern edge of the other guidance, that's obviously more problematic going forward, even if the ensemble means differ. 

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yea looking at the members the # of south members didn't actually go up. There have been about 10-15 out of the 52 each run. But we lost some of the crazy inland solutions that were mixing even up here. That moved the mean south a bit. Agree with funky look of op euro. I've remained mostly quiet because given my location people might just figure of course he thinks that but I was fairly confident we would see a south move day 3-4 and then a trend back north the last 48 hours. By that I don't mean bad for anyone here, when it's over with qpf Max over va and higher ratios over md and southern pa I think we all get crushed. Final axis of snow might resemble 83/96 or slightly south of those 2. This thing is going to be a juiced monster and qpf will adjust on the northern edge as usual. Euro has been digging too much lately also. We just saw it get schooled because of that. I think this whole forum is on a great spot for a change.

 

Great post. And we always see the northern cutoff modeled poorly. The precip shield seems to always expand the closer we get.

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The NAM is basically useless for anything in this kind of storm.  I think by Thursday, it will be worth looking at to assess potential for convection in the deform band.  It has a HUGE positive bias on precip in heavy precip events (as I think most of us know), so be prepared for some epic NAMing's, but don't conflate that with reality. 

 

This past 12z run (or maybe tonight's 0z) is probably the last time I'd give the ensembles more weight than the Ops.  So, if the Euro Op continues to be on the southern edge of the other guidance, that's obviously more problematic going forward, even if the ensemble means differ. 

But, interestingly, the NAM's juice late in this run corresponds to a T to the GFS (operational and Para), GGEM, & JMA. How many times have we seen that? I can't recall any except with 12/09 and 2/6/10.

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Not sure if this was posted but found this interesting. Per http://wjla.com/news/local/top-10-highest-one-day-snowfall-totals-for-the-dc-region and http://www.weather.gov/lwx/winter_storm-pr#TopDaySnowfall

 

Top 10 Highest One Day Snowfall Totals

 

Jan 28, 1922 - 21.0 inches
 
Feb 11, 1983 - 16.4 inches
 
Dec 19, 2009 - 15.0 inches
 
Feb 7, 1936 - 14.4 inches
 
Feb 19, 1979 - 14.0 inches
 
Feb 16, 2003 - 13.3 inches
 
Jan 7, 1996 - 13.0 inches
 
Feb 15, 1958 - 12.9 inches
 
Jan 29, 1966 - 12.0 inches
 
Feb 13, 1899 - 12.0 inches

 

 

Top 1, 2 and 3-day stats for DCA, IAD and BWI can be found here: http://www.weather.gov/lwx/winter_storm-pr#TopDaySnowfall

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Just got a chance to look at the euro ens. They look solid. The "tick" south on the mslp panels is mostly just getting rid of a bunch of lows that went over the tidewater or into the bay (which are not good placements for the corridor). Everything is tighter now and honestly looks pretty damn good. 

 

I wish I could post euro maps to give a picture to this but the op run did some weird things with precip. The knife edge cutoff was very suspect IMHO. When there is a sub 990 tucked right into VA beach you typically don't see such a gradient. Then the progression gets weird with multiple lows. The ULL pass is still pretty good even with the south shift. 

 

I'm no longer worried about the op solution and won't be until I see it happen again a bunch of times. Which I personally doubt. 

 

Can you comment on the strange triple closed low formation at hr 108 on the Op? Is that even possible because the CMC shows something very similar.  I've never seen something like that in a model before that wasn't tossed as erroneous to my recollection...

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