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hurricane sandy thread #2


forkyfork

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In my experience 65-70MPH is the threshold for damage so anything short is basically run of the mill. Meh.

Disagree. I definitely wouldn't call 55-65mph winds run of the mill. We rarely see anything over 50-55 gusts in this area, either via nor'easters or T-storms. Additionally, these gusts will be ongoing over a 24-48 hr period, which is very unique in terms of what we've experienced in this area. Persistent strong winds will weaken trees esp with saturated ground.

Structural damage will be limited inland yes, but along the coast it could be quite bad with storm surge, flooding, and gusts to 85+mph.

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URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY
436 PM EDT SAT OCT 27 2012
...DANGEROUS COASTAL STORM EXPECTED MONDAY INTO TUESDAY...
CTZ005>012-NJZ002-004-006-103>108-NYZ067>075-078>081-176>179-
281000-
/O.NEW.KOKX.HW.A.0003.121029T1000Z-121030T2200Z/
NORTHERN FAIRFIELD-NORTHERN NEW HAVEN-NORTHERN MIDDLESEX-
NORTHERN NEW LONDON-SOUTHERN FAIRFIELD-SOUTHERN NEW HAVEN-
SOUTHERN MIDDLESEX-SOUTHERN NEW LONDON-WESTERN PASSAIC-
EASTERN PASSAIC-HUDSON-WESTERN BERGEN-EASTERN BERGEN-
WESTERN ESSEX-EASTERN ESSEX-WESTERN UNION-EASTERN UNION-ORANGE-
PUTNAM-ROCKLAND-NORTHERN WESTCHESTER-SOUTHERN WESTCHESTER-
NEW YORK (MANHATTAN)-BRONX-RICHMOND (STATEN ISLAND)-
KINGS (BROOKLYN)-NORTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-NORTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-
SOUTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-SOUTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-NORTHERN QUEENS-
NORTHERN NASSAU-SOUTHERN QUEENS-SOUTHERN NASSAU-
436 PM EDT SAT OCT 27 2012
...HIGH WIND WATCH IN EFFECT FROM MONDAY MORNING THROUGH TUESDAY
AFTERNOON...
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN UPTON HAS ISSUED A HIGH WIND
WATCH...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM MONDAY MORNING THROUGH TUESDAY
AFTERNOON.
* LOCATIONS...SOUTHEAST NEW YORK...NORTHEAST NEW JERSEY AND
 SOUTHERN CONNECTICUT.
* HAZARDS...DAMAGING WINDS OF LONG DURATION.
* WINDS...NORTHEAST INCREASING TO 30 TO 40 MPH WITH GUSTS 50 TO 60
 MPH MONDAY MORNING...BECOMING EAST 40 TO 55 MPH WITH GUSTS 70 TO
 80 MPH MONDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING...THEN BECOMING SOUTHEAST
 35 TO 45 MPH WITH GUSTS 50 TO 60 MPH LATE MONDAY NIGHT INTO
 TUESDAY.
* TIMING...MONDAY MORNING THROUGH TUESDAY AFTERNOON. STRONGEST
 WINDS ARE EXPECTED MONDAY AFTERNOON AND NIGHT.
* IMPACTS...A SIGNIFICANT THREAT TO LIFE AND PROPERTY EXISTS.
 PREPARE FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF MODERATE WIND DAMAGE. WINDS WILL
 BE CAPABLE OF DOWNING TREES AND SNAPPING OFF LARGE TREE
 BRANCHES. POWER OUTAGES COULD LAST AT LEAST SEVERAL DAYS. DEBRIS
 WILL BLOCK SOME ROADS. MINOR STRUCTURAL DAMAGE TO BUILDINGS AND
 HOMES IS POSSIBLE. WINDOWS IN HIGH RISE BUILDINGS COULD BE
 BROKEN BY FLYING DEBRIS.
PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...
NOW IS THE TIME TO BEGIN PREPARING YOUR HOME OR BUSINESS
ACCORDING TO YOUR DISASTER PLAN. LISTEN FOR POSSIBLE WARNINGS AND
BE READY TO EVACUATE IF NECESSARY. HEED THE ADVICE OF LOCAL
OFFICIALS AND COMPLY WITH ANY ORDERS THAT ARE ISSUED.
FOR ADDITIONAL PRECAUTIONARY AND PREPAREDNESS INFORMATION...PLEASE
REFER TO THE DETAILED RECOMMENDATIONS RELATIVE TO YOUR LOCATION AS
FURTHER DESCRIBED BY YOUR LOCAL NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICE
AND YOUR LOCAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT.
&&
$$
GOODMAN

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Alot depends how well the winds mix down. I would not go higher than 35-50, gusts 60 at this point....there will undoubtedly be someone higher, especially on the immediate shore without frictional effects. But this not being a true tropical system it can sometimes be hard to mix winds down, especially once you're just inland.

Agree with this. But I do still think even inland areas that are just north of the center will see a burst of strong dangerous wind as the storms center comes near the shore/passes south of them.

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its real shame there are no hurricane watches out right now. but i can tell you one thing working in a supermarket people are preparing pallets upon pallets of water being sold, batteries, candles etc. but with the way the models are depicting the winds/rain, i would love to be tracking this storm and thats it not experiencing it because where i live i have a feeling i'll probably never experience this again in my life if this turns out to be as bad as its forecasted. earthlight, at this current juncture might be too early to give an answer but how hard along long island are the winds say at 925-950 are going to have mixing down? that me is my number one concern as well if we do indeed get some kind of dryslot as well. thanks

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Disagree. I definitely wouldn't call 55-65mph winds run of the mill. We rarely see anything over 50-55 gusts in this area, either via nor'easters or T-storms.

exactly. his comment was laughable.

meanwhile, mt. holly's comment on winds for monmouth, middlesex, somerset, morris:

* WINDS...NORTHEAST TO NORTH AT 35 TO 45 MPH WITH GUSTS OF 55 TO

65 MPH ARE ANTICIPATED MONDAY AND TUESDAY. THESE WINDS MAY THEN

SHIFT TO THE WEST LATE MONDAY AS THE STORM MOVES ACROSS OUR

AREA. THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR SOME LOCAL WIND GUSTS TO 75

MPH, MAINLY ALONG THE IMMEDIATE NEW JERSEY COAST.

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NJ / DE coasts just had storm warnings posted. Don't think they'll issue any tropical advisories for the coasts up this way as they aren't needed.

Of course I didn't have that posted for any more than a minute and Upton put up a "Hurricane Force Wind Watch" for the NY Harbor. :lol:

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Disagree. I definitely wouldn't call 55-65mph winds run of the mill. We rarely see anything over 50-55 gusts in this area, either via nor'easters or T-storms. Additionally, these gusts will be ongoing over a 24-48 hr period, which is very unique in terms of what we've experienced in this area. Persistent strong winds will weaken trees esp with saturated ground.

Structural damage will be limited inland yes, but along the coast it could be quite bad with storm surge, flooding, and gusts to 85+mph.

3/13/10 should put any idea to rest that those kind of winds don't do much damage. Parts of the area hit with those kind of winds were without power for a week, and trees were knocked over everywhere. And that was when trees were de-foliated. When people lose power for many days as a result of those conditions, it's hardly "run of the mill" for them. Those kind of winds can also blow debris around like shingles, siding, loose furniture, etc.

I'm hoping honestly that the storm trends east and hits east of us over Suffolk County. It would still be very windy then and more rainy, but the devastating surge would be avoided (however of course it would be worse for other people).

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FIRST A NOTE ON THE NWS WARNING STRATEGY FOR SANDY. IN ORDER TO

AVOID THE RISK OF A HIGHLY DISRUPTIVE CHANGE FROM TROPICAL TO

NON-TROPICAL WARNINGS WHEN SANDY BECOMES POST-TROPICAL...THE WIND

HAZARD NORTH OF THE TROPICAL STORM WARNING AREA WILL CONTINUE TO BE

CONVEYED THROUGH HIGH WIND WATCHES AND WARNINGS WARNINGS ISSUED BY

LOCAL NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OFFICES.

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No one should be expecting sustained hurricane force winds. Tropical storm force, yes, probably 40-50mph on the coast and 30-40mph sustained inland.

Look it is hard to say for sure. We really have never seen something quite like this before and won't know until this storm is bearing down on us. I am sure there are legitimate reasons to believe we won't get to sustained Hurricane Force winds (thank goodness) and I must yield to more expert analysis but to rule it out already seems a bit premature.

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Of course I didn't have that posted for any more than a minute and Upton put up a "Hurricane Force Wind Watch" for the NY Harbor. laugh.png

Well there you go. I was chatting with Analog96 the other day and he pointed out this was a possibility as it is a watch they have in their arsenal believe it or not.

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URGENT - MARINE WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY

453 PM EDT SAT OCT 27 2012

...DETERIORATING CONDITIONS TONIGHT THROUGH MONDAY MORNING...

...HURRICANE FORCE WIND GUSTS POSSIBLE MONDAY AFTERNOON AND

NIGHT...

ANZ350-353-355-280500-

/O.CON.KOKX.SC.Y.0088.000000T0000Z-121028T1000Z/

/O.NEW.KOKX.HF.A.0001.121029T1000Z-121030T2200Z/

MORICHES INLET NY TO MONTAUK POINT NY OUT 20 NM-

FIRE ISLAND INLET NY TO MORICHES INLET NY OUT 20 NM-

SANDY HOOK NJ TO FIRE ISLAND INLET NY OUT 20 NM-

453 PM EDT SAT OCT 27 2012

...SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 6 AM EDT SUNDAY...

...HURRICANE FORCE WIND WATCH IN EFFECT FROM MONDAY MORNING

THROUGH TUESDAY AFTERNOON...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN UPTON HAS ISSUED A HURRICANE

FORCE WIND WATCH...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM MONDAY MORNING THROUGH

TUESDAY AFTERNOON.

* LOCATION...COASTAL OCEAN WATERS.

* WINDS...EAST 45 TO 55 KT WITH GUSTS UP TO 70 KT.

* SEAS...23 TO 28 FEET.

* TIMING...GALE FORCE WINDS SHOULD BEGIN SUNDAY NIGHT...AND

INCREASE TO STORM FORCE LATE SUNDAY NIGHT. GUSTS TO HURRICANE

FORCE ARE LIKELY MONDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A HURRICANE FORCE WIND WATCH IS ISSUED WHEN THE RISK OF HURRICANE

FORCE WINDS OF 64 KT OR GREATER HAS SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED...BUT

THE SPECIFIC TIMING AND/OR LOCATION IS STILL UNCERTAIN. MARINERS

ARE URGED TO MAKE ALL NECESSARY PREPARATIONS TO RETURN TO

PORT...SEEK SAFE HARBOR...AND SECURE THEIR CRAFT. NOW IS THE TIME

TO INITIATE PREPARATIONS ACCORDING TO YOUR EMERGENCY PLAN. IF YOU

LIVE ON A BOAT...BEGIN TO SAFELY SECURE YOUR CRAFT AND MAKE PLANS

TO LEAVE IT FOR ADEQUATE LAND BASED SHELTER. MONITOR WEATHER

BROADCASTS FOR CHANGES TO THE LATEST FORECASTS AND LISTEN FOR

FURTHER STATEMENTS FROM LOCAL OFFICIALS.

&&

$$

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We had winds a bit over 60mph in the 12/26/10 Boxing Day Blizzard, and it did quite a bit of damage here in Dobbs Ferry. We didn't lost many whole trees, but there were large limbs down all over, and some weakened trees that were dying did fall down. That was with bare trees. With trees still carrying leaves and heavy rain, we could be looking at a worse situation.

Another factor being underplayed is the duration of the storm. The high winds in the Boxing Day Blizzard lasted a couple hours. Most thunderstorms see only 5-10 minutes of high winds. We're talking a day or more of these winds weakening trees and downing power lines.

I am a public school teacher in NYC, and I'm wondering whether Bloomberg is going to cancel school. No way I'm going to work.

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Already had a friend from NYC call to tell me that the storm will miss because no Hurricane Watches or Warnings will be put up. facepalm.png

i mean the NHC did bring up a good point in not doing that, but as you heard from your friend a high wind watch/warning has been issued before in the tri state area and with not very many people taking it seriously at all. but trust me there is plenty of hype going on today up here atleast from where i work and i can tell you people are preparing! im very happy that people are taking this seriously finally

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A lot of my friends don't believe me that this storm will be worse than Irene in terms of the surge and winds.

Yeah the lack of hurricane watches/warnings has alot of people thinking nor'easter. I think inland is where people will be most surprised, the coast did see 50-60 mph with Irene so people here will probably be less caught off guard outside of the flooding being worse.

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Yeah the lack of hurricane watches/warnings has alot of people thinking nor'easter. I think inland is where people will be most surprised, the coast did see 50-60 mph with Irene so people here will probably be less caught off guard outside of the flooding being worse.

snowgoose i think at this time and with the current data we got we can say this is going to be very interesting and intriguing to unfold. were really not gonna see a setup like this again for a long time. inland flooding is gonna be terrible i fear though

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With the time of the year, the very strong winds have another impact that they wouldn't otherwise have - all of the Halloween decorations in people's front yards all over the place that are already set up. I've been told that NE NJ is still full of Halloween decorations prepared weeks ago that haven't been taken down. It's going to be a messy Halloween for many...

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Yeah the lack of hurricane watches/warnings has alot of people thinking nor'easter. I think inland is where people will be most surprised, the coast did see 50-60 mph with Irene so people here will probably be less caught off guard outside of the flooding being worse.

We had some 50mph gusts during Irene and people here in general don't think this will be worse than that.

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