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Baroclinic Zone
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4 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

There’s a slight difference between a dollar and a dream vs a shot and a nightmare though.

Absolutely....... you have better odds with a dollar and a dream, however that is difficult to explain to a person who lost a loved one to a side effect. As always......

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"Until that process is complete, we are recommending this pause. This is important to ensure that the health care provider community is aware of the potential for these adverse events and can plan due to the unique treatment required with this type of blood clot."

It's a temporary pause until the treatment needed is understood by providers. 

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12 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

There’s a slight difference between a dollar and a dream vs a shot and a nightmare though.

You do realize getting up in the morning Every day  carries better odds of dying for your age group  , then from a side effect that is 6 out of 3.5 million .

The daily odds from getting in a car and operating it are higher . Much much higher . It frightens me if people literally knew the odds of dying from every single thing they do daily and don’t need to . Not bc the odds are significant , but bc people can’t process them and act logically . People just hear the word death and their brain freezes up processing .
 

 

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Just now, STILL N OF PIKE said:

You do realize getting up in the morning Every day  carries better odds of dying for your age group  , then from a side effect that is 6 out of 3.5 million .

The daily odds from getting in a car and operating it are higher . Much much higher . It frightens me if people literally knew the odds of dying from every single thing they do daily and don’t need to . Not bc the odds are significant , but bc people can’t process them and act logically 

Yes I get that. Let’s not start making all these comparisons though. One can make a case from any angle. My point is, it is better to be transparent and cautious here. 

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2 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

This is going to make more people not wanting to get any vaccine and halt the opening process.

Yes because some will just read the headline or 1st tweet and use it to justify their hesitation in general, unfortunately. There is no nuance any more. Dumbest time to be alive

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27 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

You do realize getting up in the morning Every day  carries better odds of dying for your age group  , then from a side effect that is 6 out of 3.5 million .

The daily odds from getting in a car and operating it are higher . Much much higher . It frightens me if people literally knew the odds of dying from every single thing they do daily and don’t need to . Not bc the odds are significant , but bc people can’t process them and act logically . People just hear the word death and their brain freezes up processing .
 

 

Yep. Here is CT's covid death rate by age. If your young and healthy your like 4000x more likely to probably die in a car crash or accident. 

 

Screenshot_20210407-130348_Chrome.jpg

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So they are pausing to give doctors a chance to figure out how to treat dangerous blood clots? Yet some of you are still confused as to why millions of people are waiting to get the vaccine until more info comes out about side effects, boosters, etc? Really?

This is what happens when you sign up for a vaccine that was tested for six weeks and then rushed to market. 

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27 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

This is going to make more people not wanting to get any vaccine and halt the opening process.

yup.  Had a few ladies at my work already run over and tell me "J&J Shot is on hold", cuz they know it's the shot I got.  Now they said they won't get that one due to the clotting. Luckily I'm a dude. 

Honestly from what I've seen, the Pfizer one is by far and away the best one for efficacy, safety, and least side effects. 

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16 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

 

This is what happens when you sign up for a vaccine that was tested for six weeks and then rushed to market. 

That's not quite a fair statement.

I've been in drug development over 20 years. I can safely say that there's no drug trial in the world that's big enough to pick up a 6 in 6.5 million side effect. Even if a trial ran 3-4 years with several hundred thousand people, that probably wouldn't have been picked up. 

60 million people take Tylenol. On average, there are 50-60k people hospitalized and 500 deaths due to toxicity every year. Pick any drug approved drug on the market and you'll find some reaction. 

The FDA will put in back on the market within a week.

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3 minutes ago, Whineminster said:

 

Honestly from what I've seen, the Pfizer one is by far and away the best one for efficacy, safety, and least side effects. 

Both RNA vaccines are pretty comparable. Moderna uses a touch higher RNA amounts. Probably why it has a little more after affects. I'm sure moderna and Pfiizer executives are off the walls this morning.

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7 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

That's not quite a fair statement.

I've been in drug development over 20 years. I can safely say that there's no drug trial in the world that's big enough to pick up a 6 in 6.5 million side effect. Even if a trial ran 3-4 years with several hundred thousand people, that probably wouldn't have been picked up. 

60 million people take Tylenol. On average, there are 50-60k people hospitalized and 500 deaths due to toxicity every year. Pick any drug approved drug on the market and you'll find some reaction. 

The FDA will put in back on the market within a week.

It would have probably only taken one person to get the blood clots while under observation to then give doctors more time to develop therapies to treat it. Tylenol has been around for decades and doctors understand how to treat issues that arise from it.

These types of side effects are, of course, unavoidable for a massive, rapid, worldwide vaccine rollout such as this, but the rushed nature of it for a disease that is usually very mild for everyone under 65 years old is going to exacerbate every little issue like this.

Some media and political figures have tried to assert that receiving this vaccine is as simple as using mouthwash in the morning and therefore there is "no excuse" for every healthy man, woman, and child to not run right out and get jabbed with the emergency use vaccine ASAP. I really hope there are no fertility or immune issues for people 5-10 years down the line...

We need to be focused on those most at risk first. Seems like we are running out of that demand pool, however.

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3 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It would have probably only taken one person to get the blood clots while under observation to then give doctors more time to develop therapies to treat it. Tylenol has been around for decades and doctors understand how to treat issues that arise from it.

These types of side effects are, of course, unavoidable for a massive, rapid, worldwide vaccine rollout such as this, but the rushed nature of it for a disease that is usually very mild for everyone under 65 years old is going to exacerbate every little issue like this.

Some media and political figures have tried to assert that receiving this vaccine is as simple as using mouthwash in the morning and therefore there is "no excuse" for every healthy man, woman, and child to not run right out and get jabbed with the emergency use vaccine ASAP. I really hope there are no fertility or immune issues for people 5-10 years down the line...

We need to be focused on those most at risk first. Seems like we are running out of that demand pool, however.

Phin, you know I love ya dude. We're usually on the same page. Not this time.  And yes, we know ho to treat blood clots.

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1 hour ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

You do realize getting up in the morning Every day  carries better odds of dying for your age group  , then from a side effect that is 6 out of 3.5 million .

The daily odds from getting in a car and operating it are higher . Much much higher . It frightens me if people literally knew the odds of dying from every single thing they do daily and don’t need to . Not bc the odds are significant , but bc people can’t process them and act logically . People just hear the word death and their brain freezes up processing .
 

 

What I hear when I hear the word, "Death".

 

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16 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

 Pick any drug approved drug on the market and you'll find some reaction. 

All I can think of is the end of every drug commercial that lists all the possible side effects... including just about everything short of an alien life form coming out of your rectum.  "Ask your doctor, this drug is a miracle but in rare cases...."

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9 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It would have probably only taken one person to get the blood clots while under observation to then give doctors more time to develop therapies to treat it. Tylenol has been around for decades and doctors understand how to treat issues that arise from it.

These types of side effects are, of course, unavoidable for a massive, rapid, worldwide vaccine rollout such as this, but the rushed nature of it for a disease that is usually very mild for everyone under 65 years old is going to exacerbate every little issue like this.

Some media and political figures have tried to assert that receiving this vaccine is as simple as using mouthwash in the morning and therefore there is "no excuse" for every healthy man, woman, and child to not run right out and get jabbed with the emergency use vaccine ASAP. I really hope there are no fertility or immune issues for people 5-10 years down the line...

We need to be focused on those most at risk first. Seems like we are running out of that demand pool, however.

How would that ever happen with an mRNA vaccine? Is that even possible? The half life of the spike protein is so short, any potential side effects would be manifested quite quickly. (weeks, at most a few months)

"For purposes of mRNA-based therapies, modifications have been developed to keep the molecule in cells long enough to allow for the therapy to be successful. But even with this, the mRNA will not lead to protein production for more than 10-14 days."

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1 minute ago, BuffaloWeather said:

How would that ever happen with an mRNA vaccine? Is that even possible? The half life of the spike protein is so short, any potential side effects would be manifested quite quickly. (weeks, at most a few months)

"For purposes of mRNA-based therapies, modifications have been developed to keep the molecule in cells long enough to allow for the therapy to be successful. But even with this, the mRNA will not lead to protein production for more than 10-14 days."

Damage to fertility might not be seen for years if the subject is not trying to have children until that time. Fertility issues and drugs/vaccines is always a concern in the back of my head. So many people have fertility issues now already. Women who want to become pregnant some day should really weigh the risk/reward here, IMO.

No clue why 6 women had deadly blood clots or why the AstraZeneca vaccine was pulled from most of Europe due to blood clots either.

This is why vaccines are tested for years before full approval.

It's why many people are waiting. If you have a rare reaction to the vaccine, it is good to know the doctors have seen it before and can treat it.

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6 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

All I can think of is the end of every drug commercial that lists all the possible side effects... including just about everything short of an alien life form coming out of your rectum.  "Ask your doctor, this drug is a miracle but in rare cases...."

Yes, but those side effects are already known to doctors, hence being in the commercial. This vaccine is not being marketed as "possibly causes deadly blood clots in women," is it?

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1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

Damage to fertility might not be seen for years if the subject is not trying to have children until that time. Fertility issues and drugs/vaccines is always a concern in the back of my head. So many people have fertility issues now already. Women who want to become pregnant some day should really weigh the risk/reward here, IMO.

No clue why 6 women had deadly blood clots or why the AstraZeneca vaccine was pulled from most of Europe due to blood clots either.

This is why vaccines are tested for years before full approval.

It's why many people are waiting. If you have a rare reaction to the vaccine, it is good to know the doctors have seen it before and can treat it.

I don't disagree. I was similar to you in not wanting to get the vaccine at all. But changed my mind after doing lots of research on the Pfizer one. My mom has advanced stage 4 cancer as well and I take her to treatments every week with a hospital full of cancer patients. I feel quite safe with the one I got. I think mRNA vaccines are the future, the possibilities with the new technology is amazing. The old style vaccines like J&J and Astra are the ones having the side effects it seems. However, minuscule they are. 

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10 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Phin, you know I love ya dude. We're usually on the same page. Not this time.  And yes, we know ho to treat blood clots.

I don't think we even disagree. I agree with you that the FDA will have this back on the market in a couple weeks, at most. Side effects happen when you take a vaccine and immediately start administering it to the entire world at rapid (warp) speed.

I'm just trying to explain to you all how this fits in the thinking from those who are waiting to get the vaccine because they are very low risk.

By all means, the rest of you keep on getting jabs in arms. I encourage anyone who is even slightly worried about COVID to get as many jabs in their arms as possible.

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