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1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

I wish we did have a local sort of farm co op place. You can do meat shares, but would be nice to get local meats. However, the opposite is true for seafood. Tons of local places. And in the summer, can easily find one of those little stands to buy veggies and what not. 

We do a farm share at an organic farm in Easton, right down the road on 138. It’s all certified organic. We do a half share, which is $400 for the year, and runs from May through like early November. It pays for itself like two times over.

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AWT

Eric ( Radarman) posted this elsewhere 

Super informative paper... King's College of London lead... Sample size 627,383 vaccinated patients

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext

A few highlights:

1) As many have suspected, the reaction to the vaccine is far worse if you've had Covid already.

"Systemic side-effects were more common (1·6 times after the first dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (aka Oxford/AstraZeneca) and 2·9 times after the first dose of BNT162b2 (aka Pfizer)) among individuals with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection than among those without known past infection. Local effects were similarly higher in individuals previously infected than in those without known past infection (1·4 times after the first dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 1·2 times after the first dose of BNT162b2). "

2) There is no difference in side affects if you had covid recently, or quite awhile ago

" No consistent difference in occurrence of systemic or local adverse effects was observed between individuals who reported a positive test result within the past 6 months and those who reported they received a positive test result at least 6 months ago "

3) Infection risk reduction peaked at 60% for AstraZeneca at day 12, 69% Pfizer (shot1) at day 21-44, 72% at day 44-59 (shot 2)

"Significant reductions in infection risk were seen starting at 12 days after the first dose, reaching 60% (95% CI 49–68) for ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 69% (66–72) for BNT162b2 at 21–44 days and 72% (63–79) for BNT162b2 after 45–59 days."

4) In a separate sample group over an observation period of 14mos (starting Jan 2020) 10.8% of unvaxxed participants tested positive, and 3% of vaxxed participants tested positive.  (Note- vaccine wasn't ready in Jan 2020, so it's a shorter observation window implying less chance of exposure... but also to note some of those 3% likely contracted it shortly after getting the vaccine, before it takes affect)

"3106 of 103 622 vaccinated individuals and 50 340 of 464 356 unvaccinated controls tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection."

My conclusions... 

a) the vaccines generally work and reduce risk substantially, but perhaps not as well as was reported in phase 3 trials

b) the vaccines are nowhere near as effective as natural immunity

c) if you've previously had covid, you are very likely to have substantial side effects no matter how long it's been since you've had it, with almost nothing to gain

 

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6 minutes ago, Bostonseminole said:

I would think natural immunity would always win out.


.

Depends on the vaccine.

For things like mumps, measles, German measles, and polio, the vaccine is probably as good as natural. Those vaccines use the whole virus. You make antibodies and T cells that recognize the entire viral coat, not just the business end. So when you “see” it again, you mount an immune response to the entire viral protein coat. 
For recombinant or mRNA vaccines, your just immune to the business end. If the business end mutates too much, the immunity you have won’t work as well whereas if you have immunity to the entire virus, it can work better since the whole thing won’t mutate at the same rate.

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52 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

AWT

Eric ( Radarman) posted this elsewhere 

Super informative paper... King's College of London lead... Sample size 627,383 vaccinated patients

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext

A few highlights:

1) As many have suspected, the reaction to the vaccine is far worse if you've had Covid already.

"Systemic side-effects were more common (1·6 times after the first dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (aka Oxford/AstraZeneca) and 2·9 times after the first dose of BNT162b2 (aka Pfizer)) among individuals with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection than among those without known past infection. Local effects were similarly higher in individuals previously infected than in those without known past infection (1·4 times after the first dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 1·2 times after the first dose of BNT162b2). "

2) There is no difference in side affects if you had covid recently, or quite awhile ago

" No consistent difference in occurrence of systemic or local adverse effects was observed between individuals who reported a positive test result within the past 6 months and those who reported they received a positive test result at least 6 months ago "

3) Infection risk reduction peaked at 60% for AstraZeneca at day 12, 69% Pfizer (shot1) at day 21-44, 72% at day 44-59 (shot 2)

"Significant reductions in infection risk were seen starting at 12 days after the first dose, reaching 60% (95% CI 49–68) for ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 69% (66–72) for BNT162b2 at 21–44 days and 72% (63–79) for BNT162b2 after 45–59 days."

4) In a separate sample group over an observation period of 14mos (starting Jan 2020) 10.8% of unvaxxed participants tested positive, and 3% of vaxxed participants tested positive.  (Note- vaccine wasn't ready in Jan 2020, so it's a shorter observation window implying less chance of exposure... but also to note some of those 3% likely contracted it shortly after getting the vaccine, before it takes affect)

"3106 of 103 622 vaccinated individuals and 50 340 of 464 356 unvaccinated controls tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection."

My conclusions... 

a) the vaccines generally work and reduce risk substantially, but perhaps not as well as was reported in phase 3 trials

b) the vaccines are nowhere near as effective as natural immunity

c) if you've previously had covid, you are very likely to have substantial side effects no matter how long it's been since you've had it, with almost nothing to gain

 

I knew it was only a matter of time until these studies came out. Everyone was in such a rush. 

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59 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

AWT

Eric ( Radarman) posted this elsewhere 

Super informative paper... King's College of London lead... Sample size 627,383 vaccinated patients

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext

 

 

Couldn't open link.  Paywalled?   Maybe I need to turn off my VPN?

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1 hour ago, Ginx snewx said:

AWT

Eric ( Radarman) posted this elsewhere 

Super informative paper... King's College of London lead... Sample size 627,383 vaccinated patients

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext

A few highlights:

1) As many have suspected, the reaction to the vaccine is far worse if you've had Covid already.

"Systemic side-effects were more common (1·6 times after the first dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (aka Oxford/AstraZeneca) and 2·9 times after the first dose of BNT162b2 (aka Pfizer)) among individuals with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection than among those without known past infection. Local effects were similarly higher in individuals previously infected than in those without known past infection (1·4 times after the first dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 1·2 times after the first dose of BNT162b2). "

2) There is no difference in side affects if you had covid recently, or quite awhile ago

" No consistent difference in occurrence of systemic or local adverse effects was observed between individuals who reported a positive test result within the past 6 months and those who reported they received a positive test result at least 6 months ago "

3) Infection risk reduction peaked at 60% for AstraZeneca at day 12, 69% Pfizer (shot1) at day 21-44, 72% at day 44-59 (shot 2)

"Significant reductions in infection risk were seen starting at 12 days after the first dose, reaching 60% (95% CI 49–68) for ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 69% (66–72) for BNT162b2 at 21–44 days and 72% (63–79) for BNT162b2 after 45–59 days."

4) In a separate sample group over an observation period of 14mos (starting Jan 2020) 10.8% of unvaxxed participants tested positive, and 3% of vaxxed participants tested positive.  (Note- vaccine wasn't ready in Jan 2020, so it's a shorter observation window implying less chance of exposure... but also to note some of those 3% likely contracted it shortly after getting the vaccine, before it takes affect)

"3106 of 103 622 vaccinated individuals and 50 340 of 464 356 unvaccinated controls tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection."

My conclusions... 

a) the vaccines generally work and reduce risk substantially, but perhaps not as well as was reported in phase 3 trials

b) the vaccines are nowhere near as effective as natural immunity

c) if you've previously had covid, you are very likely to have substantial side effects no matter how long it's been since you've had it, with almost nothing to gain

 

My conclusion 

The real key with the vaccine is the percent it reduces severe Covid (hospitalization, organ failure , death ) 

Otherwise  a significant part of  population will never move on and be focused on the fact you can still test positive . 

We are  basically in the biggest extended phase 3 safety trial the world has seen (This is not a critique and not meant to be fearful). Basically a calculated role of the dice that will save lives .

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Modfan sent me this bad news we lost a forum poster @kbc360 an infrequent poster but a nearby neighbor and a snow plow operator for CT DOT who often posted snow totals as he traveled around ECT.  RIP Keith 

It is with a heavy heart to inform you that we lost my wife's brother, Keith Cooper at 2:45 am this morning at the age of 53, after a brief illness and a broken heart.
 Keith and my wife Lisa lost their dad, role model, hero, mentor, and best friend just a few short months ago and it has been very difficult on both of them.
  Keith loved life, had a very high IQ and drive.
After basic schooling, he excelled in the fire and EMS service, joined the Navy, and was part of the Navy-air department during desert storm, an emergency 911 dispatcher for northeastern CT. For many years, fire chief for Williamsville Fire Engine Company, part of the emergency team for Homeland security's North Eastern CT. area and a good friend to many.
In his spare time, Keith was employed by CT. DOT where he also excelled in the permitting and inspection office at the main office in Norwich.
 

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1 hour ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

My conclusion 

The real key with the vaccine is the percent it reduces severe Covid (hospitalization, organ failure , death ) 

Otherwise  a significant part of  population will never move on and be focused on the fact you can still test positive . 

We are  basically in the biggest extended phase 3 safety trial the world has seen (This is not a critique and not meant to be fearful). Basically a calculated role of the dice that will save lives .

Yes, agreed. That’s why an obsession with case counts is pointless and unhelpful. 

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Depends on the vaccine.
For things like mumps, measles, German measles, and polio, the vaccine is probably as good as natural. Those vaccines use the whole virus. You make antibodies and T cells that recognize the entire viral coat, not just the business end. So when you “see” it again, you mount an immune response to the entire viral protein coat. 
For recombinant or mRNA vaccines, your just immune to the business end. If the business end mutates too much, the immunity you have won’t work as well whereas if you have immunity to the entire virus, it can work better since the whole thing won’t mutate at the same rate.

Yes, should have been specific to the type of vax, whole virus is better.


.
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3 hours ago, PhineasC said:

I knew it was only a matter of time until these studies came out. Everyone was in such a rush. 

I mean, I don’t see anything earth shattering? Prevents severe infection was the goal... it also is pretty good at preventing infection period in most people.

I don’t see this as a big gotcha! moment 

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2 hours ago, PhineasC said:

Yes, agreed. That’s why an obsession with case counts is pointless and unhelpful. 

Absolutely. If people are waiting until case counts get below 5000 or even 10000 per day before they feel “safe”, they’ll be waiting a very very long time, and we’ll be masked indoors forever in certain states and cities. 

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13 minutes ago, DavisStraight said:

Might dive, might spike, I don't envy you guys with that decision.

I’m not in 

But I’m changing my tune w crypto  just regarding its risk / reward 

I see real crypto Bitcoin/ Ethereum  

and “fake “ crypto 

Doge/ Safemoon etc 

The joke is that both the fake ones have made people very real money ..and money they could never make in stock market returns 

life changing money , the charts are other worldly 

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/safemoon/

I mean its up 100x or 10,000% since early March in Real money 

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7 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

AWT

Eric ( Radarman) posted this elsewhere 

Super informative paper... King's College of London lead... Sample size 627,383 vaccinated patients

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext

A few highlights:

1) As many have suspected, the reaction to the vaccine is far worse if you've had Covid already.

"Systemic side-effects were more common (1·6 times after the first dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (aka Oxford/AstraZeneca) and 2·9 times after the first dose of BNT162b2 (aka Pfizer)) among individuals with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection than among those without known past infection. Local effects were similarly higher in individuals previously infected than in those without known past infection (1·4 times after the first dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 1·2 times after the first dose of BNT162b2). "

2) There is no difference in side affects if you had covid recently, or quite awhile ago

" No consistent difference in occurrence of systemic or local adverse effects was observed between individuals who reported a positive test result within the past 6 months and those who reported they received a positive test result at least 6 months ago "

3) Infection risk reduction peaked at 60% for AstraZeneca at day 12, 69% Pfizer (shot1) at day 21-44, 72% at day 44-59 (shot 2)

"Significant reductions in infection risk were seen starting at 12 days after the first dose, reaching 60% (95% CI 49–68) for ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 69% (66–72) for BNT162b2 at 21–44 days and 72% (63–79) for BNT162b2 after 45–59 days."

4) In a separate sample group over an observation period of 14mos (starting Jan 2020) 10.8% of unvaxxed participants tested positive, and 3% of vaxxed participants tested positive.  (Note- vaccine wasn't ready in Jan 2020, so it's a shorter observation window implying less chance of exposure... but also to note some of those 3% likely contracted it shortly after getting the vaccine, before it takes affect)

"3106 of 103 622 vaccinated individuals and 50 340 of 464 356 unvaccinated controls tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection."

My conclusions... 

a) the vaccines generally work and reduce risk substantially, but perhaps not as well as was reported in phase 3 trials

b) the vaccines are nowhere near as effective as natural immunity

c) if you've previously had covid, you are very likely to have substantial side effects no matter how long it's been since you've had it, with almost nothing to gain

 

This is infection risk not symptomatic covid risk. Phase 3 trials looked at the latter. 

Both natural and vaccine immunity should have greater effectiveness at reducing symptomatic covid, hospitalizations, and deaths, but a smaller effectiveness at reducing infection. 

There is no comparison here between natural immunity and vaccine immunity in this study. 

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1 hour ago, OSUmetstud said:

There is no comparison here between natural immunity and vaccine immunity in this study. 

I agree but note I didn't post this here and that statement was within the unseen context of other articles that I posted that did examine such

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19 minutes ago, radarman said:

I agree but note I didn't post this here and that statement was within the unseen context of other articles that I posted that did examine such

I haven't seen any studies yet that compared post vaccine infection with post infection infection. I'd imagine they're both pretty effective. The main advantage of the vaccine is obviously the lack of mortality and morbidity. 

If I had to guess, vaccines are better at preventing infection due to the strong antibody response but the natural virus might be better for longevity against variants due to more epitopes from the whole virus. 

 

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13 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

I haven't seen any studies yet that compared post vaccine infection with post infection infection. I'd imagine they're both pretty effective. The main advantage of the vaccine is obviously the lack of mortality and morbidity. 

If I had to guess, vaccines are better at preventing infection due to the strong antibody response but the natural virus might be better for longevity against variants due to more epitopes from the whole virus. 

 

Cool, glad folks are getting protection. Now let’s get back to normal. Thanks. 

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