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1 hour ago, OSUmetstud said:

You often need certain vaccines to attend public schools (childhood vaccines in elementary school and meningitis for college). Theres also legal precedence for the government mandate of vaccines in the US (see Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905)).  

 

That’s a tricky one. Because there’s also a precedent to not require other vaccines (flu), which by all accounts thus far is much deadlier to school age individuals.

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14 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

That’s a tricky one. Because there’s also a precedent to not require other vaccines (flu), which by all accounts thus far is much deadlier to school age individuals.

Seasonal flu seems about the same as covid for kids. 246 deaths so far under 17. But agreed. Also, can't require a vaccine for kids that's not approved yet for that population lol. I'm using the school requirements to show that there is precedence for a requirement when there is a compelling public health interest. 

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1 hour ago, OSUmetstud said:

Not bitching but I think there are some legit "liberal" type arguments against them because of equity issues. 

Vaccines are free in a lot of cases and becoming widely available. You know where I stand on equity issues but that really runs out of steam when people can very easily get a shot if they haven't already.

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3 hours ago, IWXwx said:

I feel like the "vaccine passport" would be a waste of time. I remember getting a fake ID 45 years ago so I could go into a bar. Any anti-vaxer that wants to travel could easily do the same thing.

I do feel like there will be people who will do this and are already tbh.

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Just now, Stebo said:

Vaccines are free in a lot of cases and becoming widely available. You know where I stand on equity issues but that really runs out of steam when people can very easily get a shot if they haven't already.

Worldwide they aren't. And there is already significant signs that the vaccine rollout hasn't been particularly equitable in the US. Much easier for someone with consistent computer access to get an appointment, for example. 

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55 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

What about all the people in the rest of the world, especially in poor countries who don't yet have vaccine access (and may not for some time)? Are they just not allowed to travel? 

How many people in these poor countries do we think don’t have access to the vaccine but have the means to travel internationally? I would think it’s low.

But I’m not necessarily just talking about international travel here, I’m talking about concerts, sporting events, etc.

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3 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Worldwide they aren't. And there is already significant signs that the vaccine rollout hasn't been particularly equitable in the US. Much easier for someone with consistent computer access to get an appointment, for example. 

World wide no but I am looking at this from a perspective of here. We have the most cases we have the most vaccine shots, it can be done here at least for a while. 

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1 minute ago, TimB84 said:

How many people in these poor countries do we think don’t have access to the vaccine but have the means to travel internationally?

But I’m not necessarily just talking about international travel here, I’m talking about concerts, sporting events, etc.

I think the domestic arguments are stronger. But there's really no reason to screw countries internationally where there isn't enough vaccine for everyone. 

 

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1 hour ago, OSUmetstud said:

You often need certain vaccines to attend public schools (childhood vaccines in elementary school and meningitis for college). Theres also legal precedence for the government mandate of vaccines in the US (see Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905)).  

 

Certain countries also require vaccines when going there. I think Brazil/Peru if going to the amazon require the yellow fever vaccine and a few others.

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Seems short sighted to let the virus evolve in the poorer countries, the vaccines we have are not magic bullets, they protect against some variants, not against all.

It just seems that neither common sense nor charity are getting much traction in the official reaction to the epidemic.

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13 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

I think the domestic arguments are stronger. But there's really no reason to screw countries internationally where there isn't enough vaccine for everyone. 

 

I agree, but I also don’t know how much “screwing” is being done, as it would seem rare that someone would be in a country so poor as to not have access to the vaccine but still have the means to travel internationally.

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10 minutes ago, etudiant said:

Seems short sighted to let the virus evolve in the poorer countries, the vaccines we have are not magic bullets, they protect against some variants, not against all.

It just seems that neither common sense nor charity are getting much traction in the official reaction to the epidemic.

It is so frustrating to read stuff like this. Our country, by far, leads the world in vaccinations numbers. Everybody in our country has sacrificed something in the last year. By the time this is all said in done, I’d be willing to bet the overwhelming majority of people in all age groups have the vaccine. Hell, it’s not even OPEN to most people still. Want some common sense that people will respond to? How about showing some optimism in our fight since we are currently leading the world. You people who insist our country is filled with selfish, stupid people must truly be miserable.
 

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42 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

I agree, but I also don’t know how much “screwing” is being done, as it would seem rare that someone would be in a country so poor as to not have access to the vaccine but still have the means to travel internationally.

Hell there isn't much international travel is even happening right now? Not much, we can cross that bridge when it is more applicable.

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We should absolutely do whatever we can to distribute more vaccine across the world.  That being said, until the rest of the world catches up, I'm not against restricting travel into the US.  This applies to Europe, poor countries, anybody.  I understand there are arguments against that.  I'm not sure how it makes sense to not have international travel restrictions into the US and also be in favor of having vaccine passports for US citizens to be able to do things in their own country, but these are complex issues and I enjoy reading different perspectives.  

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30 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Hell there isn't much international travel is even happening right now? Not much, we can cross that bridge when it is more applicable.

Vaccine passports as originally slated were/are definitely about international travel. I mean they're called passports for a reason lol. There will be inequitable vaccine distribution across the world for a few years. 

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Just now, OSUmetstud said:

Vaccine passports as originally slated were/are definitely about international travel. I mean they're called passports for a reason lol. There will be inequitable vaccine distribution across the world for a few years. 

Well I see them more of a "can I go to the stadium" type passport since most travel is still closed.

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Just now, Stebo said:

Well I see them more of a "can I go to the stadium" type passport since most travel is still closed.

I still don't get the point overall. The people who don't get the vaccine are mostly punishing themselves by taking the risk with the virus. I think this group will be relatively small. 20 to 30 percent at most? Once those who get vaccinated that want to we will almost surely be well beyond the herd immunity threshold between infections and vaccine. 

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14 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

I still don't get the point overall. The people who don't get the vaccine are mostly punishing themselves by taking the risk with the virus. I think this group will be relatively small. 20 to 30 percent at most? Once those who get vaccinated that want to we will almost surely be well beyond the herd immunity threshold between infections and vaccine. 

Same. I will add I also support every businesses or event holders right to require a vaccine card at their event. I don’t think many will, but they should be able to if that’s what they want to do.

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18 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Same. I will add I also support every businesses or event holders right to require a vaccine card at their event. I don’t think many will, but they should be able to if that’s what they want to do.

I think the argument works better the other way. Like if I'm in Australia or New Zealand or Africa or the Middle East I wouldn't necessarily want a bunch of unvaccinated travelers coming in to cause an outbreak in a mostly naive population with lesser vaccine availability. 

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Just now, RyanDe680 said:

Government isn’t requiring you to do anything if you don’t agree with it.  Stupid is as stupid does. 

So who is doing the “asking” in your statement? You?

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9 minutes ago, RyanDe680 said:

You don’t have to go to a grocery store.  Order online or email it in since wearing a mask is more painful than a hangnail. 

Wtf are you talking about 

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4 hours ago, schoeppeya said:

Although your definition of “Common sense” may be your objective reality, it’s not everyone’s objective reality.

What will be the death of this country is people failing to realize that people have different experiences in life that lead them to the beliefs they have. What’s common sense to someone who lives in Los Angeles, CA isn’t the same as someone who lives in Pioneer, OH. People get so caught up in trying to govern “the other half”, but the beauty of our system is that people have choices and freedom to live under local and regional governments that fit their point of view within our federal framework that primarily supports individual choice. 

Smh

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4 hours ago, schoeppeya said:

Although your definition of “Common sense” may be your objective reality, it’s not everyone’s objective reality.

What will be the death of this country is people failing to realize that people have different experiences in life that lead them to the beliefs they have. What’s common sense to someone who lives in Los Angeles, CA isn’t the same as someone who lives in Pioneer, OH. People get so caught up in trying to govern “the other half”, but the beauty of our system is that people have choices and freedom to live under local and regional governments that fit their point of view within our federal framework that primarily supports individual choice. 

The thing about nature is, the virus will produce the same symptoms whether the patient lives in Los Angeles, CA or Pioneer, OH. Though I’ll bet Pioneer, OH has a higher population of vulnerable people in several categories (elderly, obese, smokers, etc.). So the virus would actually carry a higher risk of severe illness or death there.

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The thing about nature is, the virus will produce the same symptoms whether the patient lives in Los Angeles, CA or Pioneer, OH. Though I’ll bet Pioneer, OH has a higher population of vulnerable people in several categories (elderly, obese, smokers, etc.). So the virus would actually carry a higher risk of severe illness or death there.

In all my life I never thought little ole Pioneer, OH would be in a discussion on here haha used to kayak all the time on Bird Lake just north of there.

This isn’t that complicated folks, get your vaccine and live life without fear
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19 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

The thing about nature is, the virus will produce the same symptoms whether the patient lives in Los Angeles, CA or Pioneer, OH. Though I’ll bet Pioneer, OH has a higher population of vulnerable people in several categories (elderly, obese, smokers, etc.). So the virus would actually carry a higher risk of severe illness or death there.

Maybe produce the same symptoms, but it won’t spread the same. The county next to my parents and the one they live in has had under 100 cases a day for close to two months now despite having a population of over half a million people. You think they should be legislated the same way as LA?

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