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Sandy/EC Discussion Part IV


andyhb

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In 1938, it came in like a bullet with already built up sea heights. It managed to bring 8 feet of water 1 mile inland across southern New England and I don't have to tell you the numbers at the coast.

This storm will have a 1992/1962 type of an effect but even those storms aren't analogous should the current NWP be correct. Perhaps some mets with more knowledge can chime in on storm surge/coastal flooding in this area.

This is what I have in my "worst case scenario" for this storm. 10 feet in the Sound.

Irene was ~5 and we saw what an ill-timed 5ft can do.

TBH I'm quite concerned about NYC even if a more Euro-esque solution verifies.

I believe this storm will also be occurring during a full moon so that will also be influencing the tides.

What are the times of high tides? Any chance the strongest part of the storm interacts with high tide?

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Look, we're reasonable guys and we've shown that over the summer convective season (although I like to hype when I can!) but let's be real: NYC is in some real trouble if this storm doesn't track to the East. While the memory of Irene is firmly placed in the back of people's minds with the pathetic 6-12" surge at Battery, my worry is no one will take it seriously. I couldn't possibly speculate on the water that would pile up in NYC but it would be devastating. There has been a lot of research since 1992 about the possibility and I remember the simulations were terrifying if a major hurricane bolted into NYC, akin to 1938 but further West.

Agreed with all of this. NYC is my biggest concern.

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Yeah still warm core but seems to becoming a bit more asymmetric. I'd argue it's more an ugly sheared look than actual ET... at least based on what I've seen from recon and the phase space diagrams... but yes... probably getting underway, albeit slowly.

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Don Sutherland

The 8 am NHC advisory showed that Sandy decelerated further overnight. Sandy is now tracking NW at just 10 mph. Its slower forward motion is increasing the likelihood that it will be captured farther south. While the GFS/GFS ensembles can't be dismissed just yet and Sandy could still make landfall somewhere from the VA Capes to northern NJ, my guess is that the Delmarva to southern NJ offers the highest probability at this time.

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Maybe they mean the Polar Jet?

Yea, I think you're right. Here's the text on the cnn site:

"As Sandy turns landward next week, it may be met by a winter storm front crawling to the east out of U.S. heartland, according to the weather service. They could collide and join, producing an even larger, stronger storm."

I really hate when they dumb stuff down like that! How is the public supposed to learn anything when all they're fed is pablum?!

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Yea, I think you're right. Here's the text on the cnn site:

"As Sandy turns landward next week, it may be met by a winter storm front crawling to the east out of U.S. heartland, according to the weather service. They could collide and join, producing an even larger, stronger storm."

I really hate when they dumb stuff down like that! How is the public supposed to learn anything when all they're fed is pablum?!

To bad it won't come close to snowing where I'm at at, pfft some "winter storm" CNN. axesmiley.png

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From what I'm reading it appears we should be using the US models for idea of LF. Scary but seems like they have best handle

lol... I was wondering when you'd realize the GFS is going to have to be your model of choice. And a couple days ago it was "toss it because its the GFS."

Ride the most damaging model home.

With that said, my personal thought is that this will not make the turn like the ECMWF. I don't think the GFS is as bad a model as some on here say it is, so I'm leaning a bit more that way.

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lol... I was wondering when you'd realize the GFS is going to have to be your model of choice. And a couple days ago it was "toss it because its the GFS."

Ride the most damaging model home.

With that said, my personal thought is that this will not make the turn like the ECMWF. I don't think the GFS is as bad a model as some on here say it is, so I'm leaning a bit more that way.

The GFS is really the 2nd best global model we have....Ukie perhaps is better, but that is a point of debate in terms of its usefulness for our area. It technically scores a bit higher, but it often is totally out to lunch on the big storms which is where we want models to perform their best.

That said, Euro is still by far the best model so its hard not to put a lot of weight on it.

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lol... I was wondering when you'd realize the GFS is going to have to be your model of choice. And a couple days ago it was "toss it because its the GFS."

Ride the most damaging model home.

With that said, my personal thought is that this will not make the turn like the ECMWF. I don't think the GFS is as bad a model as some on here say it is, so I'm leaning a bit more that way.

Pick the model that gives heaviest snow and most damage. This will be a long long winter.

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This is such a difficult forecasting situation. Someone said it earlier but boy do I envy the set up of the '38 Hurricane. Models are literally showcasing a LF from Maine to Virginia. God I hope the 12z runs don't hold firm. If they do let them uncertainty continue. I got to say I still believe LF will be within 50 miles of NYC.

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