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January 2012 Storm Threats and Discussion


PhineasC

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Here is the change in the PAC I was talking about beyond Jan 10th on the Euro ensembles...you can see its a lot different in the EPO region with the ridge amplified up into the Bering Straight. The Atlantic still stinks as noted by the PV stuck over Baffin Island...but this would likely begin a shift with much colder air over the northern CONUS...esp the N plains over to the N Lakes and perhaps further east...the bad ATL likely preventsit from penetrating SE...but a +PNA spike during this type of regime would give much better shot at a snow event than the current putrid long wave pattern

dec2912zecensemble.png

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Here is the change in the PAC I was talking about beyond Jan 10th on the Euro ensembles...you can see its a lot different in the EPO region with the ridge amplified up into the Bering Straight. The Atlantic still stinks as noted by the PV stuck over Baffin Island...but this would likely begin a shift with much colder air over the northern CONUS...esp the N plains over to the N Lakes and perhaps further east...the bad ATL likely preventsit from penetrating SE...but a +PNA spike during this type of regime would give much better shot at a snow event than the current putrid long wave pattern

dec2912zecensemble.png

I know that pattern....you forgot to mention that it results in a height anomaly gradient that is biased toward New England with the default flow to our north and west....However I have accepted that you all getting into a more favorable pattern is probably better for us down the line.....in that pattern you'll get yours 1st which is fine...you do average 400% of my snowfall

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I know that pattern....you forgot to mention that it results in a height anomaly gradient that is biased toward New England with the default flow to our north and west....However I have accepted that you all getting into a more favorable pattern is probably better for us down the line.....in that pattern you'll get yours 1st which is fine...you do average 400% of my snowfall

Well I did mention the northern tier gets coldest in that pattern in that post and the cold would struggle more to get into the SE. But it would certainly allow +PNA to tap into a much better source region rather than this ugly pattern or a transient -NAO or pseudo -NAO....this current PNA spike will probably not even be that impressive for the M.A. Briefly up here it will be impressive but only for a day or two.

Without the -NAO, you probably won't get a big KU-esque system, but at least would have a shot at a clipper or something ala 12/5/07 or a 1-3" changeover event ala 1/27/09. Something like that. But there's virtually no shot at anything without getting a cross polar flow at some point...so its a start....hopefully we can flip the NAO for a bit at some point...even if just a 10-15 day stint.

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ORH, any thoughts on LES for Garrett County Sunday through Tuesday? Thinking of heading up but the timing is a bit inconvenient. I'll go if it will really come down.

I don't know the LES patterns all that well for that area, but I have to assume its going to be pretty good because 1. Models are spitting out QPF there which is always a good sign when looking for upslope-enhanced LES and 2. There should be a bit of synoptic enhancement with the strong vortmax rounding the based of the deep trough on Mon night...we end up with a very deep layer of RH which can only help.

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I know that pattern....you forgot to mention that it results in a height anomaly gradient that is biased toward New England with the default flow to our north and west....However I have accepted that you all getting into a more favorable pattern is probably better for us down the line.....in that pattern you'll get yours 1st which is fine...you do average 400% of my snowfall

That's still a pattern that looks like the ridge in the pacific is farther west than we'd like and might put low heights over the southwest with a ridge over the southeast. I guess I'm saying I still don't see that as much help to us but seeing so little of the map, it's hard to know fro sure.

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The JMA is rarely right so i would not worry about the precip type ;) . Now i see why you won weenie of the decade, discussing the JMA like it is a legitimate model.

No offense, but it is a legitimate model (for the most part)....exhibiting skill (for lead teams up to 5ish days) on par with some of the operational globals (including beating the Canadian, and in the ballpark-ish of the GFS).

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Good gfs run....major -epo mid month

it is uber transient and gets replaced with a monster vortex....I don't think it matters much...the pattern is so fast I doubt the models have a handle on it...The euro did have the PNA spike next week for a while but it is a significant feature that deviates pretty strongly from the mean...

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No offense, but it is a legitimate model (for the most part)....exhibiting skill (for lead teams up to 5ish days) on par with some of the operational globals (including beating the Canadian, and in the ballpark-ish of the GFS).

No offense taken at all, you know alot more about models than me. Like JI said except for some of the huge storms over the past 5 years i could have sworn it was terrible on most other storms. You are saying its verification scores over the past 5 years has beaten the Canadian and is almost as good as the GFS?.

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No offense taken at all, you know alot more about models than me. Like JI said except for some of the huge storms over the past 5 years i could have sworn it was terrible on most other storms. You are saying its verification scores over the past 5 years has beaten the Canadian and is almost as good as the GFS?.

I think these are the same scores that said the UKMET was the second-best model at one point. Stats can be presented in many different ways. The UKMET is a POS as far as I am concerned.

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I think these are the same scores that said the UKMET was the second-best model at one point. Stats can be presented in many different ways. The UKMET is a POS as far as I am concerned.

That is what i figured, but since he works for the NWS and he compared it to the GFS which they think is the holy grail i figured it must be a good model without me realizing it. The UKMET would be great if i could move my house 500 miles east.

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I think these are the same scores that said the UKMET was the second-best model at one point. Stats can be presented in many different ways. The UKMET is a POS as far as I am concerned.

weenie verification...no statistics necessary. Model doesn't give me snow = model sucks.

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Good gfs run....major -epo mid month

I am counting on the euro tonight to bring us hope....it is the last run I will be tracking until 2012, except maybe a brief glance from my phone....i would happily take something weak into a stale decaying air mass that gives us snow to rain...we can't expect a 180 degree flip like we got in the 2004, 2006 weak ninos....Nina is our absolute enemy....it isn't a very strong episode, but it is basin wide and a force to be reckoned with.....and so all other things being equal it is going to give us a +EPO and a -PNA....I am not educated in the physics, but we need something to step up....strong MJO, SSW event, or a block....I would even take a block over Ireland...something

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Could you please explain to me what things are taken into account to get the verification score.

One common metric is 500 mb anomaly correlation. I think the general rule is that those statistics tend to encompass more than "that model didn't do well that last time I was suppose to get a snowstorm in my backyard".

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