March Madness

[vortex95]

1 hour ago, dendrite said:

Well I actually think ASOS is pretty good. The bigger issues in my mind are siting and a lack up upkeep in sensor maintenance. GYX had issues at CON years ago because airport maintenance decided to put dark mulch around the ASOS so they didn’t have to mow anymore. BDL just had an issue fixed last year that was causing them to run a solid 2F too warm. But I don’t have an issue with digital thermometers and fan aspiration.

And I seem to recall someone telling me once that they had wanted to have automation take over at the Visitor Center, but the digital temps consistently ran cooler than the max/min in the Stevenson screen so it never happened.

The same thing happened at Central Park when that poor excuse for an ASOS replaced the COOP.

ASOS not so good here (see news clip below).  And the statement it is considered ok as long as it is +- 2 F from actual temp?  So given 2 F whole deg error, how is it proper accuracy calculating a monthly mean temp out to a tenth of a degree?  You are over an order of magnitude off given the overall temp sensor's accuracy and not following significant digit rules.

Also, ASOS first and foremost job is to aviation, so temp takes a back seat.  A documented case, not unique, is Reno NV touted as the fastest warming city in the U.S.  Not true, b/c the ASOS placement has been checked as too warm from adjacent infrastructure.  The NWS wanted to move it to a better location at the airport, but the FAA said no.

EWR had a big problem several years ago that existed for some time.  It would always come in around 2 F warmer every month compared to NYC/LGA/JFK/BDR/ISP.  Not sure if it still exists, but this is a first-order climate and GHCN site.

And AWOS?, they make up the bulk of the hourly observations we see at airports now, and they have worse issues that ASOS.  They are notorious bad for dew points, esp. when high.

So it is more than just the sensor accuracy/calibration themselves, ASOS/AWOS primary purpose is not meant for climate records.  Is this not of significant concern?  This data is used for make many, many decisions, big and small.

Site that are good?  Mesonet sites, like the one OK has had for over 30 years.  Those are sited properly and are geared for climate data.

 

[MJO812]

We had the blizzard one month ago on this date.

[dryslot]

Just some snizzle out now,31/31F

[powderfreak]

1 hour ago, vortex95 said:

ASOS not so good here (see news clip below).  And the statement it is considered ok as long as it is +- 2 F from actual temp?  So given 2 F whole deg error, how is it proper accuracy calculating a monthly mean temp out to a tenth of a degree?  You are over an order of magnitude off given the overall temp sensor's accuracy and not following significant digit rules.

Also, ASOS first and foremost job is to aviation, so temp takes a back seat.  A documented case, not unique, is Reno NV touted as the fastest warming city in the U.S.  Not true, b/c the ASOS placement has been checked as too warm from adjacent infrastructure.  The NWS wanted to move it to a better location at the airport, but the FAA said no.

EWR had a big problem several years ago that existed for some time.  It would always come in around 2 F warmer every month compared to NYC/LGA/JFK/BDR/ISP.  Not sure if it still exists, but this is a first-order climate and GHCN site.

And AWOS?, they make up the bulk of the hourly observations we see at airports now, and they have worse issues that ASOS.  They are notorious bad for dew points, esp. when high.

So it is more than just the sensor accuracy/calibration themselves, ASOS/AWOS primary purpose is not meant for climate records.  Is this not of significant concern?  This data is used for make many, many decisions, big and small.

Site that are good?  Mesonet sites, like the one OK has had for over 30 years.  Those are sited properly and are geared for climate data.

 

From a 50,000 foot view though, are they *all* wrong?

There absolutely are going to be some instrumentation issues, siting issues, etc… but looking at the collective from afar, are they all wrong?  Are mesonets and other climate recording sites that are deemed ok, showing conflicting data?

What about sensors running too cold?  Plenty of those too, but the focus here seems to be the warm ones… or is it just a general statement because of MSM latching onto the warm ones?