Wintah Bantah

[Brewbeer]

2 hours ago, BrianW said:

You forgot about solar and heat pumps.

Moving this to banter, I installed a 8.5 kw system about the same time you did and also have 1 for 1 net metering.  I don't have a minimum charge and have a large credit with the POCO, system generates more power than my family uses on average.  The credit was up to $1,200 last summer but the inverter died and was replaced (under warranty) and lost 2+ months of good generation (August-October).  This winter has also been bad, November December and January are usually net negative months, and this February was the lowest generation month I've recorded since install, persistent snow and cold kept the panels covered.  I still have 7 panels with some snow on them even now.

I would consider a heat pump but I don't like forced air heating.  When the badly designed and installed forced air heat system in my house died 10 years ago, it was replaced with a high efficiency warm water baseboard system.  That system operates at less than 130F and could be run off a warm water heat pump some day.  But for the now the gas boiler installed 10 year ago has been economical and has operated flawlessly and also provides hot water.  

 

[RUNNAWAYICEBERG]

22 hours ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Not weather related, and not AI, but saw 2 bald eagles having a snack on one of the ponds near my house this afternoon.  Sorry about the crappy picture quality 

Thanks Steve.

[dendrite]

1 hour ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Thanks Steve.

Is that an ineedsnow ensemble map

[HoarfrostHubb]

13 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Is that an ineedsnow ensemble map

I couldn’t get very close and just had my phone.  I had never seen them on the ice before.  They were there again today.   Pictures were even worse 

[dendrite]

4 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

I couldn’t get very close and just had my phone.  I had never seen them on the ice before.  They were there again today.   Pictures were even worse 

I’m just kidding. Nice pic.

[BrianW]

23 hours ago, Brewbeer said:

Moving this to banter, I installed a 8.5 kw system about the same time you did and also have 1 for 1 net metering.  I don't have a minimum charge and have a large credit with the POCO, system generates more power than my family uses on average.  The credit was up to $1,200 last summer but the inverter died and was replaced (under warranty) and lost 2+ months of good generation (August-October).  This winter has also been bad, November December and January are usually net negative months, and this February was the lowest generation month I've recorded since install, persistent snow and cold kept the panels covered.  I still have 7 panels with some snow on them even now.

I would consider a heat pump but I don't like forced air heating.  When the badly designed and installed forced air heat system in my house died 10 years ago, it was replaced with a high efficiency warm water baseboard system.  That system operates at less than 130F and could be run off a warm water heat pump some day.  But for the now the gas boiler installed 10 year ago has been economical and has operated flawlessly and also provides hot water.  

 

I am actually using 2 12k btu high efficiency mini splits. 1 floor console upstairs 1 wall unit downstairs. Works great for my open 1800 sqft split level that is very well insulated and air sealed. These things operate at just stunning efficiencies at low speed. They can run as low as like 100-200 watts at their minimum with the compressor on. I literally never turn them off and they just run low and slow all day. They were rated 30.5 SEER 14 HSPF which was like double any other heat pump available at the time. 

I have been monitoring my solar/electricty consumption including my heat pumps for almost 10 years. My average winter usage has been around 2500 kwh for Oct-Mar heating usage. Its been steadily around.5-.75 kwh per HDD. So last month BDR had 1000 HDD and it was crazy cold and I used 644 kwh for heat. So .64 kwh per HDD but often much lower in mild months. 

This is almost all powered from solar. Ive run short around 500-1000 kwh a few winters due to clouds. Even if I had to buy the electricity at CT's crazy high rates last month would have cost me 644 kwh x .33 it would have cost me $212 to heat my house. The one big benefit with electricity for heat pumps in the winter people often overlook is the stable electricity fuel price. Electricity in almost every market is adjusted twice a year for summer/winter. So your fuel cost doesn't skyrocket over night like the now nearly $5 a gallon heating oil. Electricity prices actually went down here at the winter rate change and doesn't adjust untill June 1st. 

 

 

[Brewbeer]

20 minutes ago, BrianW said:

I am actually using 2 12k btu high efficiency mini splits. 1 floor console upstairs 1 wall unit downstairs. Works great for my open 1800 sqft split level that is very well insulated and air sealed. These things operate at just stunning efficiencies at low speed. They can run as low as like 100-200 watts at their minimum with the compressor on. I literally never turn them off and they just run low and slow all day. They were rated 30.5 SEER 14 HSPF which was like double any other heat pump available at the time. 

I have been monitoring my solar/electricty consumption including my heat pumps for almost 10 years. My average winter usage has been around 2500 kwh for Oct-Mar heating usage. Its been steadily around.5-.75 kwh per HDD. So last month BDR had 1000 HDD and it was crazy cold and I used 644 kwh for heat. So .64 kwh per HDD but often much lower in mild months. 

This is almost all powered from solar. Ive run short around 500-1000 kwh a few winters due to clouds. Even if I had to buy the electricity at CT's crazy high rates last month would have cost me 644 kwh x .33 it would have cost me $212 to heat my house. The one big benefit with electricity for heat pumps in the winter people often overlook is the stable electricity fuel price. Electricity in almost every market is adjusted twice a year for summer/winter. So your fuel cost doesn't skyrocket over night like the now nearly $5 a gallon heating oil. Electricity prices actually went down here at the winter rate change and doesn't adjust untill June 1st. 

 

 

how did you fair during the snow and cold of February?  my panels were completely covered nearly the entire month.  

[BrianW]

1 hour ago, Brewbeer said:

how did you fair during the snow and cold of February?  my panels were completely covered nearly the entire month.  

I am fortunate that I can clear my panels really easy by just standing on my deck with a broom on an extension pole. Most of the time I just clear the bottom 2 feet and it melts or slides off. Took me quite a bit more work though in that big storm but I remove the snow regardless as I dont want ice dams. I definitely wouldnt be climbing up on a ladder or anything crazy like that to clear it. If I had a ton of land I would do a ground mount in New England. 

Production is really starting to ramp up with that increasing sun angle. Here is the production from my small 1.2 kwh system that really shows the increase well.

 

 

 

 

[Brewbeer]

2 hours ago, BrianW said:

I am fortunate that I can clear my panels

that you are, mine are two stories above a concrete patio, I'd need a pole 30 feet long, I'm not going up there on a ladder.  It's doesn't really matter much in December or January, there is a big pine tree to my south and it's shadow crosses the array midday, but by early-mid February the sun is above the tree and sunny day production really takes off.  Typical winter consumption for my family is about 19-20 kwh/day, summer it's 16-18/day if AC isn't needed. 

For heat, a typical 30F day the house uses ~10k BTUs/hr on average, on a 0F design day it's about 30k BTU.  I'm curious what a water heat pump in that output range looks like from a cost and equipment footprint perspective, gas boilers don't last for ever.      

[HoarfrostHubb]

2 hours ago, Brewbeer said:

that you are, mine are two stories above a concrete patio, I'd need a pole 30 feet long, I'm not going up there on a ladder.  It's doesn't really matter much in December or January, there is a big pine tree to my south and it's shadow crosses the array midday, but by early-mid February the sun is above the tree and sunny day production really takes off.  Typical winter consumption for my family is about 19-20 kwh/day, summer it's 16-18/day if AC isn't needed. 

For heat, a typical 30F day the house uses ~10k BTUs/hr on average, on a 0F design day it's about 30k BTU.  I'm curious what a water heat pump in that output range looks like from a cost and equipment footprint perspective, gas boilers don't last for ever.      

I'm kind of surprised they don't make/sell solar panels with some sort of heater/defrost system built in...

[BrianW]

18 hours ago, Brewbeer said:

that you are, mine are two stories above a concrete patio, I'd need a pole 30 feet long, I'm not going up there on a ladder.  It's doesn't really matter much in December or January, there is a big pine tree to my south and it's shadow crosses the array midday, but by early-mid February the sun is above the tree and sunny day production really takes off.  Typical winter consumption for my family is about 19-20 kwh/day, summer it's 16-18/day if AC isn't needed. 

For heat, a typical 30F day the house uses ~10k BTUs/hr on average, on a 0F design day it's about 30k BTU.  I'm curious what a water heat pump in that output range looks like from a cost and equipment footprint perspective, gas boilers don't last for ever.      

I have had a heat pump water heater since 2012 and love it. They are just insanely efficient and inexpensive to run. They use a 350 watt compressor to heat the water and they dehumidify your basement as well. 

 From an energy cost perspective mine averages around 1-2 kwh in electricity consumption a day and around 600 kwh a year. Even with New Englands expensive electricity around .30 or more its still absolutely blows away oil/gas in operating cost. I have solar but if I had to pay for all the electricity it would have cost me like $180 in electricity for hot water for the year. Thats $15 a month for hot water. Yesterday my tank used 45 cents in electricity for hot water. People using the now nearly $5 heating oil will burn that equivalent money in seconds. 

As far as cost goes almost every New England state has like a $700+ state rebate on them and there was a federal rebate up to recently. They are like $1200 and the rebates makes them like $300 the same cost of a regular electric one. In CT right now the rebate is $900 here at

https://www.energizect.com/explore-solutions/water-heaters/heat-pump-water-heaters-details

I dont think many people realize oil burners run at close to 1 gallon per hour consumption when its running. With $5 heating oil your most likely burning a gallon a day minimum for hot water . With current prices thats $150 a month right now. Thats practically my entire yearly cost for my hot water for 1 month.

Here is my last years usage and weekly usage from my Rheem 50 Gallon heat pump water heater. 

 

 

 

 

 

[radarman]

Right in the backyard today, 2 of em-- hung out all afternoon and still here!

[HoarfrostHubb]

Way better than my Sasquatch pics