December 2025 OBS and Discussion

[Dark Star]

3 hours ago, MANDA said:

Totally agree with you.  It all started with every event after November 2018.  I never remember it before that and vividly remember it after that!

100%

Some say it's liability.  Bulldinkies.  it's all about looking like you are doing something.  Somehow, I don't think road salt and chemicals have gotten any cheaper.  I remember some winters when they would run out...

[sussexcountyobs]

58 minutes ago, the_other_guy said:

It will always be Vernon Valley to me haha

I'll do one better. We used to call it Traction Park.

[wishcast_hater]

I'll do one better. We used to call it Traction Park.

Class Action Park. Awesome Documentary.


.

[jm1220]

3 hours ago, North and West said:

.

If we can somehow get that trough/vortmax to track under us and better yet close off SE of LI. The ridge out west has to be steep enough to allow it to dig and some blocking to the north would be good to slow everything down and lock in a high. In this pattern that's how we get anything to happen outside of a lucky 1-2" type clipper like last year before Christmas in a fast zonal flow. 

[coastalplainsnowman]

4 hours ago, wishcast_hater said:

Class Action Park. Awesome Documentary.


.

I'll have to check that one out.  I picked up a great book about it about five years ago:  "Action Park: Fast Times, Wild Rides, and the Untold Story of America's Most Dangerous Amusement Park"

 

[Volcanic Winter]

14 hours ago, MANDA said:

It is honestly obscene.  Was in a mall parking lot last night and i t was LOADED with rock salt.  Almost could not see pavement though it.

The brine they used nearly destroyed my 2019 WRX that I commute with, caused a major oil leak that nearly took out my engine if I had let it go another couple miles before stopping the car. Shop said 100% the salt brine corroded the lines etc. My fault for not washing enough, but I certainly don’t neglect to wash my vehicle. What they do in NJ is entirely excessive - yes I understand the population density warrants precaution but they take it to a degree that’s just not warranted for the weather. 

[bluewave]

16 hours ago, JerseyWx said:

I don't understand why this is the new trend.  We got 1 inch of snow on Tuesday and the roads look like the middle of February after a blizzard.

The runoff is leading to higher salt content in the drinking water supply for areas around NYC and NJ.

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-city-reservoirs-salt-c5d67e6c626878d0993974498c4629b6

The suburban reservoirs that supply 10% of New York City’s vaunted drinking water are getting saltier due to decades of road salt being spread near the system — and they will eventually have to be abandoned if nothing is done to reverse the trend, city officials warn.

https://patch.com/new-jersey/bridgewater/salty-taste-nj-drinking-water-linked-use-salt-brine-roads

NEW JERSEY — Have you noticed a salty taste in your water recently? New Jersey American Water said it is due to the use of salt and brine for public safety during the recent extreme winter weather and ongoing drought conditions.

The water company shared a notice with customers about the change in taste on Friday.

 

[donsutherland1]

10 hours ago, Dark Star said:

Some say it's liability.  Bulldinkies.  it's all about looking like you are doing something.  Somehow, I don't think road salt and chemicals have gotten any cheaper.  I remember some winters when they would run out...

The Department of Sanitation was in its own insular bubble that day with no idea of the imminent storm, even as Philadelphia was seeing 1/4-mile visibilities for hours. Maybe they could have followed observations here and learned about the snow.

 

[North and West]

Some say it's liability.  Bulldinkies.  it's all about looking like you are doing something.  Somehow, I don't think road salt and chemicals have gotten any cheaper.  I remember some winters when they would run out...

.

[Brian5671]

13 hours ago, sussexcountyobs said:

Mountain Creek ski resort here in my town in Vernon, opened today. Earliest opening ever.

great start for the local places here in CT too-nice snowmaking weather and some got 6 inches from the event last week

[SACRUS]

 

31 / 27 clear.  Today , Wed/Thu the warmest (still near normal) of the next 10 days.  Coldest days Mon/Tue and the stretch between the 12th and 17th.  Still need to watch the period between 12-15 for any snow / mix.  Beyond there moderation towards the 17th and into the week of Christmas.

Dec 7 - Dec 17th :   Below to much below normal coldest Dec 8/9, 13-15
Dec 18th - Dec 24 :  Moderating / warmer near normal.

[SACRUS]

ecords:

Highs:

EWR:  76 (1998)
NYC: 75 (1998)
LGA: 75 (1998)
JFK: 75 (1998)


Lows:

EWR: 16 (1954)
NYC: 10 (1926)
LGA: 17 (1954)
JFK: 20 (1964)

Historical:

 

1740 - In early December two weeks of mild and rainy weather culminated in the worst flood in fifty years in the Lower Connecticut River Valley. The Merrimack River swelled to its highest level, and in Maine the raging waters swept away mills, carried off bridges, and ruined highways. (David Ludlum)

1830: The winter of 1830-31 was known as the "Winter of the Deep Snow" in Illinois. Records from Fort Armstrong (presentt-day Moline), Fort Dearborn (persont-day Chicago), and Augusta indicated that heavy snowfall of 2 to 3 feet had fallen during the month of December. This severe winter, along with a poor corn harvest, compelled northern Illinoisans to seek grain in southern parts of the state, which had escaped the extreme conditions of the north. The furnishing of grain led to the use of the term "Little Egypt" being used to describe southern Illinois. (Ref. Wilson Wx. History)

1927: Blizzard hits the arrowhead with heavy snows and 70 mph winds at Duluth, MN. (Ref. AccWeather Weather History)
 

1935 - Severe flooding hit parts of the Houston, TX, area. Eight persons were killed as one hundred city blocks were inundated. Satsuma reported 16.49 inches of rain. The Buffalo and White Oak Bayous crested on the 9th. (6th-8th) (The Weather Channel)

1972: Brutal record cold prevailed from the Lakes to the Pacific Northwest. Record low temperatures for the date included: Great Falls, MT: -30 °F, Williston, ND: -30 °F, Bismarck, ND: -28 °F, Rochester, MN: -28 °F, Helena, MT: -28 °F, Green Bay, WI: -21 °F, Minneapolis, MN: -20 °F, Billings, MT: -20 °F, Casper, WY: -18 °F, Sheridan, WY: -18 °F. Most of Florida escaped the deep freeze and a few locations reported record high temperatures for the date including: Vero Beach, FL: 87 °F, Fort Myers, FL: 86 °F and Tampa, FL: 85 °F-Tied. (Ref. Wilson Wx. - Additional Temperature Records Listed)

1987 - Heavy rain fell across eastern Puerto Rico, with 19.41 inches reported at Las Piedras. Flooding caused five million dollars damage. Another in a series of storms hit the northwestern U.S., with wind gusts above 100 mph reported at Cape Blanco OR. While snow and gusty winds accompanied a cold front crossing the Rockies, strong westerly winds, gusting to 93 mph at Boulder CO, helped temperatures in western Kansas reach the 60s for the sixth day in a row. Freezing drizzle in northeastern slowed traffic to 5 mph on some roads in Morrow County. (The National Weather Summary) (Storm Data)

1988 - An outbreak of cold arctic air brought up to 18 inches of snow to the Colorado Rockies, with 14 inches at Boulder CO, and seven inches at Denver. Heavy snow blanketed New Mexico the following day, with 15 inches reported near Ruidoso. (Storm Data) (The National Weather Summary)

1989 - A storm moving out of the Central Rocky Mountain Region spread snow across Kansas and Oklahoma into Arkansas and Tennessee. Snowfall totals ranged up to 7.5 inches at Winfield KS. Freezing rain on trees and power lines cut off electricity to 24,000 homes in northeastern Arkansas, and 40,000 homes in the Nashville TN area were without electricity for several hours. (Storm Data) (The National Weather Summary)

1996: A rapidly deepening coastal storm crossed New England, giving the region its second heavy snowfall in as many days. 20.5 inches of snow fell at Groton, VT, 19.5 inches was recorded at New Ipswich, NH, 18 inches piled up at Ashburnham, MA, and 16.5 inches was measured at Union, CT. Over eastern Massachusetts and southern New Hampshire, the snow was extremely wet. Snow was still on trees and other objects from the previous day's storm, and this combined with the new snow and some rain mixing in resulted in an enormous amount of tree damage. Over 900,000 people lost power with 500,000 in Massachusetts alone. 113,000 people in Massachusetts were without power for several days. This was the most extensive and costliest weather related power outage in New Hampshire's history as 94,000 lost power during the storm. (Ref. AccWeather Weather History)

1998: The highest temperature ever recorded in Richmond, VA in December was 81 °F that occurred on two dates. The other date is December 6th in 1998.(Ref. Richmond Weather Records KRIC)
Overall, 70 all-time December temperature records and 700 daily records were broken during the first 8 days of the month as an unprecedented late autumn heat wave occurred from the Rockies to the East Coast. The following locations set their all-time December record high: Wilmington, NC: 82 °F, Richmond, VA: 81 °F-Tied, Washington, DC: 79 °F, Lynchburg, VA: 79 °F-Tied, Greensboro, NC: 78 °F-Tied, Atlantic City, NJ: 77 °F, Islip, NY: 77 °F (broke previous daily record by 19 degrees), Providence, RI: 77 °F (broke previous daily record by 14 degrees), Baltimore, MD: 77 °F-Tied, Newark, NJ: 76 °F, Boston, MA: 76 °F (broke previous daily record by 10 degrees), Windsor Locks and Bridgeport, CT: 76 °F (broke daily record by 14 degrees), Hartford, CT: 76 °F (broke previous daily record by 14 degrees), New York (Central Park), NY: 75 °F, New York (Kennedy Airport), NY: 75 °F (broke previous daily record by 16 degrees), New York (LaGuardia), NY: 75 °F, Harrisburg, PA: 75 °F-Tied, Milton, MA: 74 °F (broke previous record by 12 degrees), Concord, NH: 73 °F, Philadelphia, PA: 73 °F-Tied, Worcester, MA: 72 °F and Portland, ME: 71 °F-Tied (broke previous daily record by 12 degrees). (Ref. Wilson Wx.- Additional Temperature Records Listed at This Link)

2002: Fog reduced visibility on I-65 near the Tennessee River in Northern Alabama during the early morning hours. A tractor trailer jackknifed, leading to a chain reaction accident that involved 18 vehicles. (Ref. Wilson Wx. History)

2003: December 5th through the 7th, New York and New England: The greatest Nor'easter snowstorm in recent memory strikes New York and New England. In Central Park, New York City, the accumulation reaches 14 inches. The greatest accumulation buries Pinkham Notch at Mount Washington in New Hampshire: 47 inches. (Ref. WxDoctor)

[SACRUS]

 

Daylight: 9H21M:10S.  We'll lose another 6 minutes but way of later sunrise.  We are in the earliest sunsets and will gain 10 mins back on sunsets by Dec 31st but continue to lose time at the sunrise netting a 3m increase in daylight post solstice by 31st.

 

 

[NEG NAO]

12 minutes ago, SACRUS said:

 

31 / 27 clear.  Today , Wed/Thu the warmest (still near normal) of the next 10 days.  Coldest days Mon/Tue and the stretch between the 12th and 17th.  Still need to watch the period between 12-15 for any snow / mix.  Beyond there moderation towards the 17th and into the week of Christmas.

Dec 7 - Dec 17th :   Below to much below normal coldest Dec 8/9, 13-15
Dec 18th - Dec 24 :  Moderating / warmer near normal.

impossible to predict anything with confidence past 5 days in this fast flowed pattern with very cold air and above average snow cover always to our north and west with the southern jet getting more involved in the pattern..............

[the_other_guy]

this month is toast beyond a lucky one off for NYC. Sad for a BN Dec. 

Enjoy the rain Thursday.

[Dark Star]

1 hour ago, North and West said:

.

To reiterate, there was zero snow on any paved surfaces Saturday morning.  They were wet from the MELTED snow.  Temps were above freezing when they salted, and would have naturally dried with sun all day and temps over 40 degrees.  The only thing the salt did was get in dog's paws, go down the storm drains to give a shock load to the aquatic flora and fauna, increase salt content in drinking water sources, and get underneath your vehichle to initiate corrosion.

[Dark Star]

23 minutes ago, SACRUS said:

 

Daylight: 9H21M:10S.  We'll lose another 6 minutes but way of later sunrise.  We are in the earliest sunsets and will gain 10 mins back on sunsets by Dec 31st but continue to lose time at the sunrise netting a 3m increase in daylight post solstice by 31st.

 

 

Thanks, I think...

[Dark Star]

33 minutes ago, SACRUS said:

 

31 / 27 clear.  Today , Wed/Thu the warmest (still near normal) of the next 10 days.  Coldest days Mon/Tue and the stretch between the 12th and 17th.  Still need to watch the period between 12-15 for any snow / mix.  Beyond there moderation towards the 17th and into the week of Christmas.

Dec 7 - Dec 17th :   Below to much below normal coldest Dec 8/9, 13-15
Dec 18th - Dec 24 :  Moderating / warmer near normal.

That white protruding from PA in western Jersey isn't snow cover, is it?

[WestBabylonWeather]

3 hours ago, Volcanic Winter said:

The brine they used nearly destroyed my 2019 WRX that I commute with, caused a major oil leak that nearly took out my engine if I had let it go another couple miles before stopping the car. Shop said 100% the salt brine corroded the lines etc. My fault for not washing enough, but I certainly don’t neglect to wash my vehicle. What they do in NJ is entirely excessive - yes I understand the population density warrants precaution but they take it to a degree that’s just not warranted for the weather. 

The brine not only destroys undercarriages of cars it’s terrible for ground water etc. 

[JerseyWx]

2 hours ago, bluewave said:

The runoff is leading to higher salt content in the drinking water supply for areas around NYC and NJ.

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-city-reservoirs-salt-c5d67e6c626878d0993974498c4629b6

The suburban reservoirs that supply 10% of New York City’s vaunted drinking water are getting saltier due to decades of road salt being spread near the system — and they will eventually have to be abandoned if nothing is done to reverse the trend, city officials warn.

https://patch.com/new-jersey/bridgewater/salty-taste-nj-drinking-water-linked-use-salt-brine-roads

 

NEW JERSEY — Have you noticed a salty taste in your water recently? New Jersey American Water said it is due to the use of salt and brine for public safety during the recent extreme winter weather and ongoing drought conditions.

The water company shared a notice with customers about the change in taste on Friday.

 

Wow that's really scary honestly.  The question is, why does the runoff that goes into our storm sewers enter our drinking water supply?

Storm runoff is supposed to enter local streams/rivers/lakes, or so I thought.  Regardless, that water contains a lot of other chemicals as well, think about when a garbage truck leaks on your street, or a car is leaking fluids, then you get a heavy rain that rinses everything down the storm drains.

[SACRUS]

52 minutes ago, Dark Star said:

That white protruding from PA in western Jersey isn't snow cover, is it?

 

No a majority of clouds , can start to see some snow cover in the mt's

 

[SACRUS]

55 minutes ago, Dark Star said:

Thanks, I think...

Ha slow progress towards later sunsets we're at 4:29 now - for those who enjoy a bit more light, anyways.

[SACRUS]

1 hour ago, NEG NAO said:

impossible to predict anything with confidence past 5 days in this fast flowed pattern with very cold air and above average snow cover always to our north and west with the southern jet getting more involved in the pattern..............

 

Fully agree - as currently forecats that looks to be some moderation by the 18th, but plenty of cold to the north as mentioned.

[steve392]

42 minutes ago, JerseyWx said:

Wow that's really scary honestly.  The question is, why does the runoff that goes into our storm sewers enter our drinking water supply?

Storm runoff is supposed to enter local streams/rivers/lakes, or so I thought.  Regardless, that water contains a lot of other chemicals as well, think about when a garbage truck leaks on your street, or a car is leaking fluids, then you get a heavy rain that rinses everything down the storm drains.

Most of the places where nyc's reservoirs are don't have storm water drains. It's all culvert on natural ground so it just gets soaked into the dirt. 

[lee59]

Good radiational cooling last night, hit 23 here. Meanwhile UHI had temps mostly above freezing in the city as suburbs were in the teens and twenties.

[MANDA]

48 minutes ago, SACRUS said:

 

Fully agree - as currently forecats that looks to be some moderation by the 18th, but plenty of cold to the north as mentioned.

Current longer range guidance differs significantly as to what the pattern does just beyond mid-month.  ECAI wants nothing to do with any kind of a notable moderation in temperatures.  It keeps the cold locked and loaded through Christmas.  Other guidance relaxes the cold but nothing suggests any kind of a Christmas torch this year.  We'll see.  Modeled forecasts of warm ups have been either wrong or muted for the most part since back in October.  Snowfall prospects much more uncertain but I'd favor persistence and lean toward possible light clipper / frontal passage events.  Don't see any solid evidence at this point in the longer range of anything major 4-8"+.  In general I'd favor overall below normal precipitation for the next 7-10 days.  Colder and generally dry pattern looks to dominate.

[NEG NAO]

13 minutes ago, MANDA said:

Current longer range guidance differs significantly as to what the pattern does just beyond mid-month.  ECAI wants nothing to do with any kind of a notable moderation in temperatures.  It keeps the cold locked and loaded through Christmas.  Other guidance relaxes the cold but nothing suggests any kind of a Christmas torch this year.  We'll see.  Modeled forecasts of warm ups have been either wrong or muted for the most part since back in October.  Snowfall prospects much more uncertain but I'd favor persistence and lean toward possible light clipper / frontal passage events.  Don't see any solid evidence at this point in the longer range of anything major 4-8"+.  In general I'd favor overall below normal precipitation for the next 7-10 days.  Colder and generally dry pattern looks to dominate.

are you talking about your area in Northwest NJ or the entire NYC metro from Ocean County up to Ulster County in NY  ?

[IrishRob17]

12 minutes ago, NEG NAO said:

are you talking about your area in Northwest NJ or the entire NYC metro from Ocean County up to Ulster County in NY  ?

It’s impossible to predict anything with confidence past 5 days in this fast flowed pattern………………….

[anthonymm]

2 hours ago, the_other_guy said:

this month is toast beyond a lucky one off for NYC. Sad for a BN Dec. 

Enjoy the rain Thursday.

BN december in a nina means BN winter. On to spring.

[MJO812]

18 minutes ago, IrishRob17 said:

It’s impossible to predict anything with confidence past 5 days in this fast flowed pattern………………….

Bingo