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Winter 2023/24 Medium/Long Range Discussion


Chicago Storm
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The wave in between the first system and the one we’ve been tracking is now too deep/amplified as well. There’s no moisture leftover for that one to be the big storm.

Storms with so many moving parts like this tend to be very iffy.

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13 minutes ago, andyhb said:

The wave in between the first system and the one we’ve been tracking is now too deep/amplified as well. There’s no moisture leftover for that one to be the big storm.

Storms with so many moving parts like this tend to be very iffy.

That's what I immediately noticed.  The Thursday wave is much stronger this run, which totally blows up the late-week potential.  Last night's run was much flatter with this wave.

857673091_trend-ecmwf_full-2024010612-f120.500hv.conus(1).gif.fdb6605b0e2d683de9e5642d70206a41.gif

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12 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

Euro seems to be picking up on what @Stebo and @andyhb iirc mentioned

It is a possibility as well but I think this is the basement, it completely flattens the pattern because of amplifying a trailing wave between this storm and the wednesday storm.

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If we see the ensembles start to emphasize that in-between shortwave more in the next few runs, then we’ll know it might be curtains for the high end. Going to be difficult to get 3 consecutive waves to amplify significantly regardless of your background regime.

Edit: EPS mean still looks rather promising.

image.thumb.png.52bbb376e4d21021014fc6fdc33855b8.png

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Basically what it comes down to is that 1/11-13 shortwave needs to be the dominant one in the wave train for this potential with this to take off. In other words, it needs to be slower/amplify more in the west prior to ejecting into the Plains.

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1 hour ago, andyhb said:

Basically what it comes down to is that 1/11-13 shortwave needs to be the dominant one in the wave train for this potential with this to take off. In other words, it needs to be slower/amplify more in the west prior to ejecting into the Plains.

Better.. But still needs to slow down or energy will transfer to the coast

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19 hours ago, RCNYILWX said:

The CIPS analogs start at hour 132, so the best we can do is CPC 6-10 day analogs. The December 1978 analog had 13" in Chicago the last 4 days of the month.

Edit: Aside from some of the obvious greats, my knowledge of Midwest snowstorms prior to my time here (started in summer 2010) isn't the best. Any other dates stick out on the analog list?
c36da7e0a80dc0d5a46675a3eada2f62.gif


 

Apparently, the first in that historic series of storms hit right at the end of December '78 as seen by the nice snow cover left on New Years Day 1979. Can't help but notice the similarities with what is happening in this unfolding pattern. The "Blizzard of '79" hit 1/13-14 and was further east so that SEMI was included in the nice accumulations.

image.png.636758098ec10493ab747c9816dabc02.png

image.png.04b6ed9c64ab8e87b2cd7b159b191c73.png

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12 hours ago, Roger Smith said:

I looked at all the guidance and wondered if perhaps the eventual solution is a very strong low a bit further east like a Euro track with GFS intensity running up into Lake huron rather than Lake michigan. That would be even more similar to 1-26-1978 and would bring heaviest snow and intense blizzard conditions into Indiana and lower michigan although it would still be an extreme event for IL and WI. Would not be anywhere near 54" of snow for STL, perhaps 10-15", the max snowfalls on my proposed track (at GFS intensity) would be 30-40 inches from about s IL to GRR to n lower michigan. All it takes to shift east is a deeper dive of vorticity into TX and recurve into e/c AR and w KY-s IL then n.n.e., 960 low near LAN instead of GRB. 

In weather history, L huron is of course a magnet for deep lows, beside 1-26-78 there was also 11-09-1913, but I suppose if analogs for further west are sought, how about Nov 1, 1991? 

Jan 12, 1918 bombed-out from the Gulf states to Huron as well. 

image.png.41ef1c48a9a453ef8b71b2b344a923a8.png

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1 hour ago, RogueWaves said:

Apparently, the first in that historic series of storms hit right at the end of December '78 as seen by the nice snow cover left on New Years Day 1979. Can't help but notice the similarities with what is happening in this unfolding pattern. The "Blizzard of '79" hit 1/13-14 and was further east so that SEMI was included in the nice accumulations.

image.png.636758098ec10493ab747c9816dabc02.png

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Such great memories. Every road in Chicago was clogged and caked with snow for weeks. It was the land of Bo in the big city and it was glorious.

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1 hour ago, RogueWaves said:

Apparently, the first in that historic series of storms hit right at the end of December '78 as seen by the nice snow cover left on New Years Day 1979. Can't help but notice the similarities with what is happening in this unfolding pattern. The "Blizzard of '79" hit 1/13-14 and was further east so that SEMI was included in the nice accumulations.

image.png.636758098ec10493ab747c9816dabc02.png

image.png.04b6ed9c64ab8e87b2cd7b159b191c73.png

At Detroit, it was 6 inches of snow plus ice. The winter of 1978-79 actually had below average snowfall in Detroit (35.6"), while Chicago had records snowfall. Still with the bitter cold and snowcover it was a pretty harsh winter. 

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33 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

A fierce blizzard. although only 5 inches of snowfall at Detroit temperatures plummeted to −16°.

1917-18 was an historic cold and snowy winter for the OHV/S. Lakes. I think there was a substantial snow pack already when that hit. Much like the 78 bliz, impacts were magnified across SMI and OH. And just like 78, it wasn't forecast to bomb-out to Huron, but to take a more typical path eastward. It also may be one, if not the first storm where rescuing stranded motorists (yes in their state of the art Model T's) was a modern day phenomenon that made newspaper articles. 

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11 minutes ago, Stevo6899 said:

You know you've had shit luck with big dogs when we gotta go back to 78 to talk about a historic storm that dropped only 5 inches in detroit. Meanwhile chicago crew only gotta go back 12 years. East coast a few years. Minneapolis 13 years....

I will be forever chasing 2011. So epic.

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1 hour ago, RogueWaves said:

1917-18 was an historic cold and snowy winter for the OHV/S. Lakes. I think there was a substantial snow pack already when that hit. Much like the 78 bliz, impacts were magnified across SMI and OH. And just like 78, it wasn't forecast to bomb-out to Huron, but to take a more typical path eastward. It also may be one, if not the first storm where rescuing stranded motorists (yes in their state of the art Model T's) was a modern day phenomenon that made newspaper articles. 

It was more historic in the Ohio Valley. definitely a bit of a cold winter here, but snowfall itself was not impressive. There was a decent snowpack.

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1 hour ago, Stevo6899 said:

You know you've had shit luck with big dogs when we gotta go back to 78 to talk about a historic storm that dropped only 5 inches in detroit. Meanwhile chicago crew only gotta go back 12 years. East coast a few years. Minneapolis 13 years....

Detroit had 16.7" Feb 1/2, 2015. 

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9 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

It was more historic in the Ohio Valley. definitely a bit of a cold winter here, but snowfall itself was not impressive. There was a decent snowpack.

Perhaps Detroit proper got screwed a bit which seems common with the stronger storms tracking near there, but other areas west in The Mitt were pummeled. 

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1 hour ago, michsnowfreak said:

Detroit had 16.7" Feb 1/2, 2015. 

Indys luck sucks too. 1978 last really big one. I think the biggest storm ever was over 16 inches in like 1910 or something lol. Southern Indiana even had a historic storm with the Pre Christmas 2004 Storm where some places got 24-30" plus

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