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14 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Resources are finite. If you massively increase costs for producers and lower taxes for consumers, shortages will occur due to increased demand as prices go up, leading to an inflationary feedback loop. This will wipe out whatever marginal income increases the poor see via a national min-wage increase.

No one here is talking about direct government UBI payments based on seized assets from the wealthy, but that is what would be required to do this. A massive, direct wealth transfer scheme. Stop beating around the bush about it.

I am not saying a reset is not needed; it may be at this point. But I don't think we can tip-toe our way back out of this situation with small feel-good measures.

IMO, the American middle class should be broad and strong, but live in a 2,000 sq ft house with 1 or maybe 2 used cars. One vacation a year, down to some local beach destination or similar. This is how the middle class lived back in those halcyon days of income equality you all seek.

I think that’s all what most want for themselves and their families. 

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Just now, NorEastermass128 said:

I think that’s all what most want for themselves and their families. 

A lot of people could lower their expenses and achieve that today on their current wages.

The scenario I described is what some politicians think constitutes a "living wage" and the bare minimum, however.

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Just read about the 250 billion dollar tech and manufacturing bill that was recently passed. Looks like it was aimed at countering China as a good chunk of it is going into chip manufacturing and rare earth metal extraction. Might be some great investment opportunities in those industries. 

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2 minutes ago, BrianW said:

Just read about the 250 billions dollar tech and manufacturing bill that was recently passed. Looks like it was aimed at countering China as a good chunk of it is going into chip manufacturing and rare earth metal extraction. 

We will definitely be able to compete better with China once we get rid of all advanced-track math and science classes in the schools.

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Just now, powderfreak said:

Cynicism running rampant. Hard to see the good in anything, ha.

Well, you don't have kids so I realize all the school stuff goes right by without any notice. I'm sure all seems well on that front. Just like I am not too worried about any financial woes at Vail.

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12 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

A lot of people could lower their expenses and achieve that today on their current wages.

The scenario I described is what some politicians think constitutes a "living wage" and the bare minimum, however.

In fact, 2000 sq ft is a palace by Mass standards. I’ve never lived in a house greater than 1950 sq ft. Grew up in a family of 4 kids, two parents, one cat, one dog in 1600 sq ft with 1.5 baths. Turned out okay. 

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Just now, NorEastermass128 said:

In fact, 2000 sq ft is a palace by Mass standards. I’ve never lived in a house greater than 1950 sq ft. Grew up in a family of 4 kids, two parents, one cat, one dog in 1600 sq ft with 1.5 baths. Turned out okay. 

They need to build more houses like that now in the middle class suburban areas, but no one seems to want them. 

It's not just the house though. It's also the laptops, cellphones, streaming subscriptions, private school, college, vacations, new car for each kid, etc. That stuff all adds up big time.

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3 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

They need to build more houses like that now in the middle class suburban areas, but no one seems to want them. 

It's not just the house though. It's also the laptops, cellphones, streaming subscriptions, private school, college, vacations, new car for each kid, etc. That stuff all adds up big time.

Those Cape style houses aren’t coming back. Today, the 1600 sq ft Cape is knocked down and replaced with a 4000-5000 sq ft McMansion priced 4-5x higher than the purchase price of the knocked down Cape. 

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1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

It's possible they are being greedy. It's possible they are operating under very thin margins and just don't have the money. It's possible they consider you easily replaceable and are not worried that much about retaining you.

As a business owner, I can tell you that it's one of these three things. You have to decide if it's worth the risk to jump. There are a lot of jobs out there now. Employees have a lot of power. More than they think.

I’m sure it’s a combination of things. But I know, if they wanted too, they could offer more than 1.3%… which I consider insulting, since the union voted to forgo a raise last year given the uncertainty with the pandemic. The thanks that they are giving us trying to stuff it up our behind again, of course.

I don’t disagree margins are probably tighter, but there is a difference between not being able to give a raise, vs not wanting to give one, and hiding behind the circumstances of the last year and a half to justify that position.

 

As far as being replaced, if they let everyone walk here, they’d have to hire outside contractors to do the work of 70+ employees, and that’s going to cost a hell of a lot more than giving who you have a decent raise.

My last place of employment during negotiations got quotes on what it would cost to farm all the work out, and that discussion lasted about a week, because it was about double what you were currently paying your help.

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2 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

They need to build more houses like that now in the middle class suburban areas, but no one seems to want them. 

It's not just the house though. It's also the laptops, cellphones, streaming subscriptions, private school, college, vacations, new car for each kid, etc. That stuff all adds up big time.

Not being saddled with a 600 or 700 dollar per month student loan payment would go a long ways as well. We've talked about the insane cost of college now, but that is definitely a hindrance to younger generations buying a home....and we know buying a home is a fastest way for upward mobility on wealth.

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21 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

A lot of people could lower their expenses and achieve that today on their current wages.

The scenario I described is what some politicians think constitutes a "living wage" and the bare minimum, however.

Can they?

Mom and Pa with their 5 kids survived on Pa working at the local plumbing supply yard 40-50 years ago.

The days of a large family being able to survive off of one spouse working a blue collar job are long gone.

My mom is 1 of 4 and her father was a truck driver. Her mother never worked, and the family lived relatively comfortable. Do you know a lot of truck drivers supporting a large family as the sole provider these days? I don’t.

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11 minutes ago, NorEastermass128 said:

Those Cape style houses aren’t coming back. Today, the 1600 sq ft Cape is knocked down and replaced with a 4000-5000 sq ft McMansion priced 4-5x higher than the purchase price of the knocked down Cape. 

that's what's going on here-builders are going door to door to those houses and offering cash.   Many are being torn down and up goes an 800K house in its place-soon there will be little to no starter houses....

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10 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Not being saddled with a 600 or 700 dollar per month student loan payment would go a long ways as well. We've talked about the insane cost of college now, but that is definitely a hindrance to younger generations buying a home....and we know buying a home is a fastest way for upward mobility on wealth.

That’s huge!  PSLF will eventually be my saving grace. 

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1 minute ago, Brian5671 said:

that's what's going on here-builders are going door to door to those houses and offering cash.   Many are being torn down and up goes an 800K house in its place-soon there will be little to no starter houses....

Here, they buy the Cape at 500k+ and build a mansion to sell for 1.5M+
 

So long as the fat cats keep gobbling them up, the starter houses are a thing of the past. As a FTHB, I went straight to condos/townhomes. 

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21 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Can they?

Mom and Pa with their 5 kids survived on Pa working at the local plumbing supply yard 40-50 years ago.

The days of a large family being able to survive off of one spouse working a blue collar job are long gone.

My mom is 1 of 4 and her father was a truck driver. Her mother never worked, and the family lived relatively comfortable. Do you know a lot of truck drivers supporting a large family as the sole provider these days? I don’t.

I grew up in a family of 10.  For most of that time, my dad was the sole breadwinner as a teacher... we did without a lot  He supplemented his main income by coaching and also wrote a textbook.  My mom eventually got into teaching at a private school.

We survived somehow,   I am fortunate to be able to do better for my kids 

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11 minutes ago, NorEastermass128 said:

Here, they buy the Cape at 500k+ and build a mansion to sell for 1.5M+
 

So long as the fat cats keep gobbling them up, the starter houses are a thing of the past. As a FTHB, I went straight to condos/townhomes. 

neighborhoods look weird with 75% monster house with a tiny cape b/w 2 that the owner is still holding out....

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36 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Well, you don't have kids so I realize all the school stuff goes right by without any notice. I'm sure all seems well on that front. Just like I am not too worried about any financial woes at Vail.

It’s not just about kid stuff.  It’s half joking and not aimed at you… just that sometimes reading this thread one might think it’s just problem after problem and every reply is a cynical remark.  Guess there’s not a lot of optimism running around these days lol.

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13 minutes ago, UMB WX said:

Hypocritical of me to ask.. But how does anybody still give Phin the time of day on any platform. Gross

You could always counter his argument instead of throwing weenies all day.

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Man.  You guys are going to have a Lot to say when I get my Capitalism Talk out.  I’m a Severe fan of Capitalism, and think ANY HINT of Socialism and Regulation is an Utter disaster, making for a worthless, excuse making, lazy society.  Including the Minimum Wage which is asinine that it exists.  The Free Market in a civilized society fixes everything on its own with zero regulation.  Didn’t realize many on here were fans of socialist “Help” people out by unfairly taking from other people ideals.  

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1 minute ago, TheSnowman said:

Man.  You guys are going to have a Lot to say when I get my Capitalism Talk out.  I’m a Severe fan of Capitalism, and think ANY HINT of Socialism and Regulation is an Utter disaster, making for a worthless, excuse making, lazy society.  Including the Minimum Wage which is asinine that it exists.  The Free Market in a civilized society fixes everything on its own with zero regulation.  Didn’t realize many on here were fans of socialist “Help” people out by unfairly taking from other people ideals.  

lol

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1 hour ago, NorEastermass128 said:

In fact, 2000 sq ft is a palace by Mass standards. I’ve never lived in a house greater than 1950 sq ft. Grew up in a family of 4 kids, two parents, one cat, one dog in 1600 sq ft with 1.5 baths. Turned out okay. 

Like wise, but we're early-year boomers so can't compete with today's desires.  Our current house ha a 960 sf footprint but might squeeze out 1500 sf if loft and part of the basement are included, and it's our biggest in 50 years (next week) of marriage.  Our daughter/SIL and the 7 kids are in a house only slightly larger - has 1.5 baths and we've never had more than 1 - but they're organized, even helping to make work the 11-people-one-bathroom scenario when they visit.  We had 2 trips-of-a-lifetime, in 2016 (Japan, visiting son/DIL) and 2017 (Norway, where my wife's grandparents were born) but that was enabled by her dad's passing in 2014.  Other "vacations" tend toward watching the older kids while parents tend to the newest arrival, helping with fix-it projects and light construction, battling the abundant poison ivy, etc.  We head home exhausted but joyful and blessed.  And thoroughly middle class in my sort-of white collar job - white because it requires a 4-year degree, blue (or wool, perhaps) because it involves time in the puckerbush with the blackflies or at -20.

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1 minute ago, TheSnowman said:

Man.  You guys are going to have a Lot to say when I get my Capitalism Talk out.  I’m a Severe fan of Capitalism, and think ANY HINT of Socialism and Regulation is an Utter disaster, making for a worthless, excuse making, lazy society.  Including the Minimum Wage which is asinine that it exists.  The Free Market in a civilized society fixes everything on its own with zero regulation.  Didn’t realize many on here were fans of socialist “Help” people out by unfairly taking from other people ideals.  

Why whats wrong with being Venezuela. You can use the weight of your money instead of counting it.

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Just now, natedizel said:

You could always counter his argument instead of throwing weenies all day.

Coming to this thread to counter his nonsense rants is way down the list of why I come to enjoy the SNE threads over the yrs.

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