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1 minute ago, dta1984 said:

You still haven't explained how this would change those who are not wearing masks.  Ok so you don't want it enforced.... So the "feds" saying they recommend you wear a mask will really change anything?

Influence. Are you even trying right now?

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21 minutes ago, RobertSul said:

An impossible position? We have the worst death rate of developed nations. Why do you even bother voting for such an important position if you don’t think the person you’re voting for should be held accountable for anything? 

Also, how are these therapeutics going to work when hospitals are already having to ration supplies, while cases are still going up? Utah is going to have to in a week or two, and hospitalization rates lag behind positive cases.
 

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/10/25/with-coronavirus-cases/

 

We might want to revisit this in a month or two, to be fair. The spread in Europe is much worse right now. They managed much better than the US early in the summer but also got too complacent. 

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3 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Yes because people blindly follow what this administration does. Like how do you not have any sort of situational awareness?

Without any personal attacks, I am asking how will a mask mandate at the federal level....that is not enforced... change your local issue ?  Seems you need to be focusing on your own state and how it's being handled there first.  

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6 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Influence. Are you even trying right now?

I disagree on how much influence there is.  It's up for debate. 

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6 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

Influence. Are you even trying right now?

He’s been trained into thinking this administration can do no wrong, and if something does happen, it’s either someone else’s fault or it’s an “impossible” situation. 

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3 minutes ago, RobertSul said:

He’s been trained into thinking this administration can do no wrong, and if something does happen, it’s either someone else’s fault or it’s an “impossible” situation. 

I said they have had ups and downs in the response.  

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"Forcing" people to wear masks, just makes people not do it to 'fight against the government'. Masks aren't stopping the spread, they lower the risk, but it's not a magical thing that's going to change people's habits when it comes to hand washing and social distancing, which is something people are tired of as it is.

 

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Just now, JoMo said:

"Forcing" people to wear masks, just makes people not do it to 'fight against the government'. Masks aren't stopping the spread, they lower the risk, but it's not a magical thing that's going to change people's habits when it comes to hand washing and social distancing, which is something people are tired of as it is.

 

We need leadership. 

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Just now, JoMo said:

"Forcing" people to wear masks, just makes people not do it to 'fight against the government'. Masks aren't stopping the spread, they lower the risk, but it's not a magical thing that's going to change people's habits when it comes to hand washing and social distancing, which is something people are tired of as it is.

 

People are “forced” to wear pants when they go out, or risk being arrested. Where are the anti-pants brigades? 

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3 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

I said they have had ups and downs in the response.  

I’ll agree. In late March, I was really hopeful. We were finally being told upfront just how serious this would be, and it seemed like everything was cohesive, and that our leader was being compassionate. If he kept that up over the summer, I’d have been first in line to vote for him. 
 

Instead, it turned into a shit show.

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1 hour ago, Frog Town said:

Weird. Here in Toledo I'd say it's like 1% that doesn't were a mask.  Actually, I was in Kroger just today and didn't see a single person without a mask.  We have very different Governors though.  DeWine has actually had a great balance.  

Agreed, same here, rarely see anyone without a mask in a store.  

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8 minutes ago, RobertSul said:

People are “forced” to wear pants when they go out, or risk being arrested. Where are the anti-pants brigades? 

Well, there are decency laws on the books. There aren't really any 'mask wearing' laws on the books. There's a lot of anti-mask laws on the books though. Mostly has to do with the KKK, rioting, and concealing the face to commit crimes though. You can't police everyone, everywhere, all the time when it comes to mask wearing, and I would bet that most people are getting the virus from friends and family members when they gather. 

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6 minutes ago, RobertSul said:

I’ll agree. In late March, I was really hopeful. We were finally being told upfront just how serious this would be, and it seemed like everything was cohesive, and that our leader was being compassionate. If he kept that up over the summer, I’d have been first in line to vote for him. 
 

Instead, it turned into a shit show.

Ya, I won't shy away from the fact that the response or comments have been questionable at times. 

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2 minutes ago, JoMo said:

Well, there are decency laws on the books. There aren't really any 'mask wearing' laws on the books. There's a lot of anti-mask laws on the books though. Mostly has to do with the KKK, rioting, and concealing the face to commit crimes though. You can't police everyone, everywhere, all the time when it comes to mask wearing, and I would bet that most people are getting the virus from friends and family members when they gather. 

You don’t think wearing a mask during a pandemic should be introduced as a temporary “decency law”? 

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5 minutes ago, RobertSul said:

I’ll agree. In late March, I was really hopeful. We were finally being told upfront just how serious this would be, and it seemed like everything was cohesive, and that our leader was being compassionate. If he kept that up over the summer, I’d have been first in line to vote for him. 
 

Instead, it turned into a shit show.

As far as politics goes, it's a pretty bad situation for the current admin because you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. If this had happened in a non-election year then things would have probably been handled differently. It was a situation where they wanted to minimize the economic impact to the country and not cause mass panic, yet, at the same time, not be responsible for a lot of loss of life, knowing that the other side will use it as a political weapon. It was a hands-off type of approach so they wouldn't have to take all the blame and they could instead blame State and Local leaders. We'll see how it plays out on election night I guess. 

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17 minutes ago, dta1984 said:

Ya, I won't shy away from the fact that the response or comments have been questionable at times. 

Thank you for admitting that the federal response has been questionable, except that it has been most of the time.

10 minutes ago, JoMo said:

As far as politics goes, it's a pretty bad situation for the current admin because you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. If this had happened in a non-election year then things would have probably been handled differently. It was a situation where they wanted to minimize the economic impact to the country and not cause mass panic, yet, at the same time, not be responsible for a lot of loss of life, knowing that the other side will use it as a political weapon. It was a hands-off type of approach so they wouldn't have to take all the blame and they could instead blame State and Local leaders. We'll see how it plays out on election night I guess. 

Thank you for admitting that the administration played politics with people's lives.

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7 hours ago, JoMo said:

That's been clear since the pandemic started. You're not going to 'control' it unless you want to resort to draconian measures that are against the US Constitution or that will result in civil unrest or destruction of the economy/jobs, which will have a longer term impact. It never was about fully controlling it, it was always about slowing it down until a vaccine was available by giving guidance on best practices about public health measures that could be taken to reduce the risk of spread.  

That’s bs.  A draconian measure is national mask wearing?   So seatbelts are draconian???

 

the objective should have been to control it with the least best outcome of slowing it down.  Hard to did that when you don’t believe it’s an issue though. 

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4 hours ago, dta1984 said:

Law enforcement has plenty to deal with.  How will they enforce this?   

Who in the hell is you guys?  I am trying to understand why some need daddy government to make a mask mandate yet the local states already have them.  Stores enforce it here, what about there?   Maybe that is your issue given your posts about airport enforcement.  Quit deflecting. 

Dude stores in IL won’t even close despite a government mandate.  Local stores do whatever they want.  What hole are you living in?

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1 hour ago, dta1984 said:

Maybe you didn't quite comprehend what I said.   I said they were in an impossible position.  That is a fact, this is unprecedented.  The response they have had has had ups and downs.  That part is up for debate, and obviously your political views will cloud your response. 

This "impossible position" has been among the top 3 national security threats for years. Our national security experts were on it and provided accurate actionable intelligence to the White House decision makers very early - we know it got through, we heard Trump in his own words to Woodward. This has been predicted and there was a playbook for steps to take when this crisis hit.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

This administration fumbled the ball on the kickoff and has been running with their tails between their legs ever since. I think a lot of this is because they were thinking re-election instead of governance. It is definitely the worst modern era disaster and among the top disasters in our country's history. It was going to be hard to handle this pandemic even if it were run effectively. Since it was run the way it was run it's so terrible it is beyond words. How anyone can look at the last 9 months and think this is an effective response to a disaster and to choose to continue with this path blows my mind.

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6 minutes ago, RyanDe680 said:

That’s bs.  A draconian measure is national mask wearing?   So seatbelts are draconian???

 

the objective should have been to control it with the least best outcome of slowing it down.  Hard to did that when you don’t believe it’s an issue though. 

A draconian measure would be to threaten people with hefty fines or imprisonment if they don't wear a mask. Also, some other draconian measures would be to separate families and guard them under the threat of violence if they were to break quarantine. That's largely what created the 'anti-mask' people in the first place. The belief that they are essentially being "muzzled".

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1 hour ago, dta1984 said:

It is a damn unprecedented epidemic.  It is an impossible situation. 

No it's your closed minded views clouding yourself. 

So Australia and New Zealand are complete outliers?  Wake up bro.  This administration screwed this up from day 0.  
 

Im sure you regard Mike Pence as an essential worker right?

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1 hour ago, OSUmetstud said:

We might want to revisit this in a month or two, to be fair. The spread in Europe is much worse right now. They managed much better than the US early in the summer but also got too complacent. 

Europe is the place to judge the US performance against, imo.  In late spring and summer, they showed what is possible when you get serious -- extremely low numbers.  And now they are showing what happens when you relax and the weather gets colder.  I don't think it is fair to compare the US to smaller countries surrounded by water.

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15 minutes ago, JoMo said:

A draconian measure would be to threaten people with hefty fines or imprisonment if they don't wear a mask. Also, some other draconian measures would be to separate families and guard them under the threat of violence if they were to break quarantine. That's largely what created the 'anti-mask' people in the first place. The belief that they are essentially being "muzzled".

How many posts do you plan on making defending ignorant and angry people defying public health guidance and then blaming the rest of us for it?

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My God Dr. Atlas just tweeted a conspiracy theory about masking not working and being harmful from a AEIR just last week. And the president made fun of Biden's mask during the last debate. 

The anti science shit has been accelerating in this country for decades. We've already seen it manifesting itself in anti vax and anti agw conspiracy. This pandemic just amplifies all the existing weaknesses. 

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2 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

How many posts do you plan on making defending ignorant and angry people defying public health guidance and then blaming the rest of us for it?

I don't see those type of people blaming everyone else for it. Those type of people typically just want to live their lives, and go on with living how they see fit. So, to answer your question.... until you get the point on why "ignorant and angry" people do what they do, or feel the way they do.

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12 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Europe is the place to judge the US performance against, imo.  In late spring and summer, they showed what is possible when you get serious -- extremely low numbers.  And now they are showing what happens when you relax and the weather gets colder.  I don't think it is fair to compare the US to smaller countries surrounded by water.

Yep and France just hit it out of the park with over 52,000 cases, out of a country of around 67 million people.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/france-hits-record-52-010-daily-covid-cases-spain-declares-n1244709

 

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2 minutes ago, JoMo said:

I don't see those type of people blaming everyone else for it. Those type of people typically just want to live their lives, and go on with living how they see fit. So, to answer your question.... until you get the point on why "ignorant and angry" people do what they do, or feel the way they do.

See my post above. The anti mask movement is driven by ignorance and anti science rhetoric. 

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