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Baroclinic Zone

2018/19 Winter Banter and General Discussion - We winter of YORE

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32 minutes ago, tunafish said:

Question for anyone who reports their precip to CoCoRaHS... @Ginx snewx @tamarack  

This is my first winter reporting to them and using a snowboard.  Tomorrow's event looks to start between 4-5AM.  I usually measure at or around 7AM.
If I measure and report tomorrow at 7AM, I will have to wipe the board clean (in order to report appropriately on Friday).  

However, wiping the snowboard after only 2 hours of snow could impact the accuracy of my total storm measurement.  
I'm inclined to measure and report at 5AM, as I'm sure there will only be a T, then take my storm total measurement when the snow stops mid-morning, and report that on Friday.  

Is that what others do for events with timing like this?  I did this for an event last week, but it looked like others took their usual 7AM reading, so my observation looked "wrong".

I totally agree with what Dendrite and Tamarack have said.  You report once a day - let the chips fall where they may and don’t mess with your standard observations time.

That prompts a question from me though, which is about the parameter you’re reporting.  I only report 24-hour snow totals to CoCoRaHS.  Is “settled storm total snow upon storm completion” (I’m not exactly sure what it’s called) an actual parameter that is reported to CoCoRaHS?  I certainly don’t have that field in my daily CoCoRaHS reporting page – do people use the “Significant Weather Report Form” (or something similar) and make a special entry for a storm?  Is it just put in the “Observation Notes”?  Is that parameter just for other organizations like the NWS?

Trying to report settled storm totals in a timely manner seems like it would be very challenging/arbitrary in a lot of storms.  What happens in a synoptic storm that has several hours of front end snow, followed by 18 hours of warm temperatures and mix/rain or rising snow levels, followed by another 24 hours of lingering backside snow?  That sort of event isn’t really uncommon around here at all, but we’ll also have storms up here where it will snow for 3 or 4 days after the front end of the storm comes through, often with several additional inches of accumulation, because the storm stalled in Northern Maine, or the Maritimes, etc.  Then there’s the factor of the next storm or LES event coming in before the snow has even stopped from the previous storm.

Although I do actually have “storm totals” in my own data records, that’s nothing I report to CoCoRaHS.  I actually have to spend a lot of time parsing through NWS discussions and sometimes even the weather models to try to define each storm, where one ends and where another begins, etc., and I can’t imagine CoCoRaHS would have the average observer try to do that.

We see the BTV NWS report storm totals up here sometimes for significant events, but as Powderfreak will often point out if he posts them, numbers can be quite disparate when they incorporate people’s CoCoRaHS numbers depending on the timing of the storm.

I’d be interested in hearing what the meteorologists and other CoCoRaHS/Co-op observers have heard about reporting settled storm totals (do you try to report that parameter?) and how these other confounding factors are addressed.

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Thanks guys.  Appreciate the feedback.

@J.SpinI don't report a storm total to CoCoRaHS, just my daily precip totals.  I only report storm totals to the NWS (informally - I'm not a trained spotter), and on here via the wkevin.com 

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Last time I watched the cocorahs snow-measure product, its instructions were to record the storm at its max depth, and other info says that a snow-melt-snow sequence within an obs day should have the sum of both peaks reported.  Thus one could easily report a lot more snowfall than the depth OG.

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Blizzard verified on the front end and the back end of this storm. Over 14 inches at yyt and still going. Deep winter. 
20190102_174546.thumb.jpg.816c47d29885ab26883263a769517c62.jpg

The way winter should be in St. John’s. Rack em’ up!
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1 hour ago, tamarack said:

Last time I watched the cocorahs snow-measure product, its instructions were to record the storm at its max depth, and other info says that a snow-melt-snow sequence within an obs day should have the sum of both peaks reported.  Thus one could easily report a lot more snowfall than the depth OG.

Kind of related--I know there has been a lot of past discussion about 6 hour board clears vs once a day or only at the end of the storm.  Just a FYI, that NWS ALY had a cocorahs event a few months back and I specifically asked the METS about that, they said they want 6 hour clears for longer events---if your able to of course.  So that's the message they had to all Cocorahs members in the ALY zones.

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If winter fails it is going to be interesting listening to a certain meteorologist explain why his 200% above normal snowfall prediction for the mid-atlantic/northeast didn't work out. Although he won't be the only one doing some explaining.

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13 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Kind of related--I know there has been a lot of past discussion about 6 hour board clears vs once a day or only at the end of the storm.  Just a FYI, that NWS ALY had a cocorahs event a few months back and I specifically asked the METS about that, they said they want 6 hour clears for longer events---if your able to of course.  So that's the message they had to all Cocorahs members in the ALY zones.

Poster child for this was the Jan 2016 snowstorm that lasted close to 30 hours here.  Using the clear every 6 hr method I had close to 33" (32.8" to be exact) but the maximum snow depth was 30" right at the end of the storm.  Liquid equivalent was also measured to be 3.02" (11:1 ratio).

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Spanks45 said:

And to think last year on this date it was snowing in Florida....

The precursor to our early January blizzard?  VERY underrated storm, I had true blizzard conditions for 6 hours straight right in the middle of the day!  ZERO visibility!

 

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15 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

The precursor to our early January blizzard?  VERY underrated storm, I had true blizzard conditions for 6 hours straight right in the middle of the day!  ZERO visibility!

 

I have to live vicariously through old posts and forum topics of past storms to help ease the pain of what seems to be a dud in the making....lol

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I'm close to throwing in the towel

 

I remember people were excited about this winter because of a weak EL Nino.

That's why everyone went above normal snowfall wise and colder than normal.

****ing mjo is screwing the pattern.

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My greenhouse was 65 degrees and sunny on New Years day, it felt great! Did some weeding, the kale is still beautifully green, along with the strawberries. It is what it is, might as well enjoy what ever weather is tossed at us...

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19 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Kind of related--I know there has been a lot of past discussion about 6 hour board clears vs once a day or only at the end of the storm.  Just a FYI, that NWS ALY had a cocorahs event a few months back and I specifically asked the METS about that, they said they want 6 hour clears for longer events---if your able to of course.  So that's the message they had to all Cocorahs members in the ALY zones.

When I joined cocorahs in 2009, I'd been making obs at 9 PM since 1/1/1976 and had no interest in compromising that data by switching entirely to 7 AM, choosing 2-a-day obs instead.  On some major long-duration snowstorms, I've added a tweener about 2 PM.

200% above normal snowfall prediction for the mid-atlantic/northeast

200%?  Most places with average snowfall >80" have never recorded 200%.  MA sites averaging <20" are a different story - some had 400% in 2009-10.

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23 hours ago, tamarack said:

Last time I watched the cocorahs snow-measure product, its instructions were to record the storm at its max depth, and other info says that a snow-melt-snow sequence within an obs day should have the sum of both peaks reported.  Thus one could easily report a lot more snowfall than the depth OG.

That is true. It's also a bit counter-intuitive when considering that in a snow-some melt-snow scenario you only report the maximum depth of new snow. Not the totals of each snow event during the day. 

21 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Kind of related--I know there has been a lot of past discussion about 6 hour board clears vs once a day or only at the end of the storm.  Just a FYI, that NWS ALY had a cocorahs event a few months back and I specifically asked the METS about that, they said they want 6 hour clears for longer events---if your able to of course.  So that's the message they had to all Cocorahs members in the ALY zones.

That's interesting that they are offering that guideline in training. All guidance, including coops, is for one 24 hour clear. In reality you could measure as many times as you want during the event (without clearing), but can only report the maximum depth of new snowfall. So even if you measured every hour, by leaving the snow on the board there is settling and melting/sublimation going on. 

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2 minutes ago, HimoorWx said:

We're alive!038ca12243d154402e77da4b4561880a.jpg

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk
 

Great game. This was actually my prediction to my former boss, who is a big City fan. I knew it was going to be a tall task and City would play with a chip on their shoulder. I take comfort in the fact that it was such a tight game and Liverpool still has a 4 pt lead.

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Great game. This was actually my prediction to my former boss, who is a big City fan. I knew it was going to be a tall task and City would play with a chip on their shoulder. I take comfort in the fact that it was such a tight game and Liverpool still has a 4 pt lead.
Agreed. Going to be tough to reel in Liverpool, but nearly impossible if we lost today. Was trying to watch at work, but looking forward to watching replay without stress.

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20 hours ago, mreaves said:

Great game. This was actually my prediction to my former boss, who is a big City fan. I knew it was going to be a tall task and City would play with a chip on their shoulder. I take comfort in the fact that it was such a tight game and Liverpool still has a 4 pt lead.

 

20 hours ago, HimoorWx said:

Agreed. Going to be tough to reel in Liverpool, but nearly impossible if we lost today. Was trying to watch at work, but looking forward to watching replay without stress.

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I enjoyed the match from a footballing perspective, but would've enjoyed it more if that Stone's clearance off Ederson's hands rolled another 1.12 cm farther into the net...

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18 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

 

I enjoyed the match from a footballing perspective, but would've enjoyed it more if that Stone's clearance off Ederson's hands rolled another 1.12 cm farther into the net...

It would be amazing if 1.12 cm ended up deciding the Premier League this season.  But 1.12 is quite a bit . . . it is more snow than I have so far in meteorological winter!

[âIMG]

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58 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

 

I enjoyed the match from a footballing perspective, but would've enjoyed it more if that Stone's clearance off Ederson's hands rolled another 1.12 cm farther into the net...

 

38 minutes ago, HimoorWx said:

It would be amazing if 1.12 cm ended up deciding the Premier League this season.  But 1.12 is quite a bit . . . it is more snow than I have so far in meteorological winter!

[âIMG]

I think Liverpool will react well. As they were walking off the pitch, Kompany tried to joke with Van Dyke but he was not in the mood and looked pissed off.

I knew Van Dyke was good but I had no idea he’d be as good as he has been. Liverpool spent the money from Couthino wisely between VVD and Allison. I think they have the heart and guts to go all the way. 

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30 minutes ago, mreaves said:

I think Liverpool will react well. As they were walking off the pitch, Kompany tried to joke with Van Dyke but he was not in the mood and looked pissed off.

I knew Van Dyke was good but I had no idea he’d be as good as he has been. Liverpool spent the money from Couthino wisely between VVD and Allison. I think they have the heart and guts to go all the way. 

Allison's ridiculously cool save one on one with Aguero is something that definitely wasn't happening in the last several seasons.

Also the Van Dijk song fans are singing now is already one of my favorites. 

 

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