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Kevin W

2017-18 New England Snow

49 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Looks like JSpin has another possible contender now for the top spot along with Alex in Bretton Woods.

I think JSpin will always take the prize for total snowfall, but Alex will win the SDD battle. Too bad we don't have a member from Diamond Pond.  That short-lived co-op site averaged about 230"/yr with good retention - SDD average was just over 3,600, more than twice mine, and about 25% more than I had in Ft. Kent.

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Yeah his place isn't as good for retention as east of the crest like where Pinkham Notch is (that place takes forever to melt out) but he still gets solid retention...but he's in that first initial zone of upslope...he's got that 3500' peak just to his NW/NNW....and even on the more WNW flow, there's orographic convergence into that area forming kind of a "V" between the Twin mountains area to the south and the 3500 footer to the north.

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1 hour ago, tamarack said:

I think JSpin will always take the prize for total snowfall, but Alex will win the SDD battle. Too bad we don't have a member from Diamond Pond.  That short-lived co-op site averaged about 230"/yr with good retention - SDD average was just over 3,600, more than twice mine, and about 25% more than I had in Ft. Kent.

Pretty sure this is the same guy.

http://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base_dyn.cgi?stn=E0498&time=GMT

I'm not sure if he has his own site with snow totals.

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3 hours ago, ORH_wxman said:

Nice, you finally built a place up there?

 

Definitely. That area must average at least 120"...there's some spots near the crest that are prob 150"+...but I'm not sure if he's in one of them. It depends probably if he is far enough west to get the decaying lakeffect/upslope goods.  

It's not totally done, but it should be finished by Thanksgiving or so. As such, I should be in there in time for snow season. Besides, I've been living vicariously through that spot for the past 2+ years now. ;)

2 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Right, he can chime in on exactly where is spot is, but looks maybe a little too far SE for the absolute max like near the 2200-2500 spots near Woodford which get porked on upslope and coastals, and from pretty much every wind direction..lol. Be curios how his spot did during that Nov 2016 Upslope storm.  Woodfrod had like 25-30" I think.  That would be good barometer on strictly upslope.

I went up a day after the upslope event last November and they had 13-15" of snow OTG. Accounting for some settling and melting from beneath since it was so warm prior to the event, I fathom they must've had about 18-20". Woodford does tend to do a tad better in NW flow upslope since my spot is a little east of the spine axis, but I am pretty similar to Woodford on E or SE flow.

The gradient between Woodford, my location, and the Deerfield Valley in Wilmington or Readsboro can be insane during W to NW flow upslope. I think the valley had next to nothing in the November 2016 event save for a few inches from the FROPA and ULL. Of course if the flow is blocked, my spot can get screwed as the upslope can be out in the Taconics near or even west of Bennington. I will better learn the idiosyncrasies of the snowfall up there when I'm residing full time. 

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On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 6:37 PM, Lava Rock said:

Can someone tell me how best to build a snow table

 

 

Unless you have a specific spot in which you’re planning to build a table, I’d say just go with a picnic table (or any other sort of sturdy outdoor patio table etc.)  You can move the table around as needed to find a representative, relatively wind-free spot.  Picnic tables are nice because they’re generally quite sturdy, but of course they’re a bit heavier to move around.  The next stage would be to get a 2’ x 2’ piece (or better yet, a few pieces) of plywood, and paint it white to minimize solar heating.

 

You actually want a few different boards if you can manage it though, for a few reasons.  It’s good to supplement an elevated snow board with at least one ground board, which is more protected from the wind, and then of course there’s the potential need for multiple boards anyway if you’re in a windy spot and need to average accumulations.  Finally, what I consider perhaps the biggest “quality of life” factor necessitating multiple boards is board clearing.  In a perfect world where all storms are 100% snow, one could certainly get by with a single board.  However, reality is a bit different, and storms with mixed precipitation happen all the time.  There’s really no substitute for slapping a fresh board in place and heading right back inside instead of trying to scrape all manner of frozen atrocities from the board to get it reset.  Think back to the times you’ve had to scrape your car because it was out in a messy storm, and then imagine having to do that for an object that isn’t heated, and is purposely left out for every single storm of the winter season.  Then add onto that all the days when snow simply melts and refreezes on the board.  The process of resetting the board in those situations (especially if freezing rain made an appearance) is agonizing, and often pointless.  Also, scraping your boards leads to a lot of wear and tear.  Being able to take your board to a place to thaw while a fresh one gets put in its place really is priceless as far as I’m concerned.

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Unless you have a specific spot in which you’re planning to build a table, I’d say just go with a picnic table (or any other sort of sturdy outdoor patio table etc.)  You can move the table around as needed to find a representative, relatively wind-free spot.  Picnic tables are nice because they’re generally quite sturdy, but of course they’re a bit heavier to move around.  The next stage would be to get a 2’ x 2’ piece (or better yet, a few pieces) of plywood, and paint it white to minimize solar heating.

 

You actually want a few different boards if you can manage it though, for a few reasons.  It’s good to supplement an elevated snow board with at least one ground board, which is more protected from the wind, and then of course there’s the potential need for multiple boards anyway if you’re in a windy spot and need to average accumulations.  Finally, what I consider perhaps the biggest “quality of life” factor necessitating multiple boards is board clearing.  In a perfect world where all storms are 100% snow, one could certainly get by with a single board.  However, reality is a bit different, and storms with mixed precipitation happen all the time.  There’s really no substitute for slapping a fresh board in place and heading right back inside instead of trying to scrape all manner of frozen atrocities from the board to get it reset.  Think back to the times you’ve had to scrape your car because it was out in a messy storm, and then imagine having to do that for an object that isn’t heated, and is purposely left out for every single storm of the winter season.  Then add onto that all the days when snow simply melts and refreezes on the board.  The process of resetting the board in those situations (especially if freezing rain made an appearance) is agonizing, and often pointless.  Also, scraping your boards leads to a lot of wear and tear.  Being able to take your board to a place to thaw while a fresh one gets put in its place really is priceless as far as I’m concerned.

Awesome, thanks. How far away should the table be from nearest structure. I think the best spot for me where the wind is of least concern is on north side of garage.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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Anyone know where I might be able to pick up a yard/meter stick that increments in tenths of an inch? Stainless steel would be best, but I'm willing to consider any material at this point as they're extremely hard to find. I've found a number of them online that are 6" or 12" long, but not much luck beyond that. 

I ask since NWS protocol is to measure snow to the nearest 10th of an inch and 99.9% of rulers and yardsticks are 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, or 1/64 of an inch. Thanks.

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8 hours ago, wxmanmitch said:

Anyone know where I might be able to pick up a yard/meter stick that increments in tenths of an inch? Stainless steel would be best, but I'm willing to consider any material at this point as they're extremely hard to find. I've found a number of them online that are 6" or 12" long, but not much luck beyond that. 

I ask since NWS protocol is to measure snow to the nearest 10th of an inch and 99.9% of rulers and yardsticks are 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, or 1/64 of an inch. Thanks.

https://www.amazon.com/Tenths-Ruler-36-Inch/dp/B003G560AK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508332324&sr=8-1&keywords=tenths+ruler+36

I have this one in the 24" version, I think you will be needing the 36" version more than me that's for sure :( Its pretty thin, but like you mention, not many options out there.

 

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12 hours ago, Lava Rock said:

Awesome, thanks. How far away should the table be from nearest structure. I think the best spot for me where the wind is of least concern is on north side of garage.

 

I believe the rule of thumb is that the board should be at least as far from the structure as the structure’s height.  My elevated board at the back end of my deck does fall a touch short of hitting that mark, but with the minimal amount of wind we get at our location and the fact that I can corroborate that board’s numbers with other boards, I know that it’s not an issue.  Technically I think in a perfect setup, the boards are supposed to be out in the open without protection from the sun, but I’m fine having a setup with northern exposure as someone who can’t be at the board at all hours.  Since we’re supposed to record the maximum accumulation attained for a snowfall, it’s nice to have a bit of shade preserving some of the snow vs. it sitting in the sun and melting by the time I get home from work.

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2 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

https://www.amazon.com/Tenths-Ruler-36-Inch/dp/B003G560AK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508332324&sr=8-1&keywords=tenths+ruler+36

I have this one in the 24" version, I think you will be needing the 36" version more than me that's for sure :( Its pretty thin, but like you mention, not many options out there.

 

Thanks for responding backedge, I was going to point out the Amazon options as well.  What you want to look for are drafting rulers and navigation rulers, those are the disciplines that seem to have the most tenth of an inch ruler options.

 

Note that measuring to the tenth of an inch is only for snowfall measurements though, not snowpack measurements, which are only to the nearest inch or half inch.  Therefore, you don’t actually need a long tenths of an inch ruler unless you’re planning on something special like a stationary snowfall measurement ruler or something.

 

Your tenths of an inch ruler is something you want to be able whip out quickly for frequent snowfall measurements and view at eye level if possible, so going with too much length for that application can be unwieldy.  I think 24” is about as long as one would want to go, but even that is going to be longer than you need most of the time.  Even if you’re only going to measure snowfall at the minimum interval of once a day, how many storms do we get where you’re going to have 24 inches of settled snowfall (which actually means more than 24 inches of snow fell) in 24 hours?  It can happen, so it might be nice to have a 24” or 36” tenths of an inch ruler on hand for those rare occasions if you’re a once-a-day measurer, but 99% of the time you’re going to want a 12” ruler for ease of use.

 

I have two 18” plastic navigator’s rulers, and in my years of measurement I can’t think of more than a few times I’ve had to measure a snow accumulation stack greater than 12”.  Granted, I try to make 6 to 12-hour snowfall measurements, so exceeding a foot of accumulation during those durations is pretty rare.  One of those 18” rulers broke a while back, so I used one end to create a 6” ruler and punched a hole in it so that I could string it around my neck when I head out (you’d be amazed at how easy it can be to lose rulers in deep snow if you’ve got a lot of other observational chores to do).  That 6” ruler is all I use for more than 95% of my snowfall measurements, so having a 6” or 12” ruler is something to think about.

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30 minutes ago, J.Spin said:

 

Thanks for responding backedge, I was going to point out the Amazon options as well.  What you want to look for are drafting rulers and navigation rulers, those are the disciplines that seem to have the most tenth of an inch ruler options.

 

Note that measuring to the tenth of an inch is only for snowfall measurements though, not snowpack measurements, which are only to the nearest inch or half inch.  Therefore, you don’t actually need a long tenths of an inch ruler unless you’re planning on something special like a stationary snowfall measurement ruler or something.

 

Your tenths of an inch ruler is something you want to be able whip out quickly for frequent snowfall measurements and view at eye level if possible, so going with too much length for that application can be unwieldy.  I think 24” is about as long as one would want to go, but even that is going to be longer than you need most of the time.  Even if you’re only going to measure snowfall at the minimum interval of once a day, how many storms do we get where you’re going to have 24 inches of settled snowfall (which actually means more than 24 inches of snow fell) in 24 hours?  It can happen, so it might be nice to have a 24” or 36” tenths of an inch ruler on hand for those rare occasions if you’re a once-a-day measurer, but 99% of the time you’re going to want a 12” ruler for ease of use.

 

I have two 18” plastic navigator’s rulers, and in my years of measurement I can’t think of more than a few times I’ve had to measure a snow accumulation stack greater than 12”.  Granted, I try to make 6 to 12-hour snowfall measurements, so exceeding a foot of accumulation during those durations is pretty rare.  One of those 18” rulers broke a while back, so I used one end to create a 6” ruler and punched a hole in it so that I could string it around my neck when I head out (you’d be amazed at how easy it can be to lose rulers in deep snow if you’ve got a lot of other observational chores to do).  That 6” ruler is all I use for more than 95% of my snowfall measurements, so having a 6” or 12” ruler is something to think about.

JSpin, yes you are totally right about the depth, forgot we only need to the closest inch or half inch for reporting. 24" is probably overkill, considering my area is somewhat similar to yours in getting frequent smaller snow events (obviously not as many events and less snowy than your spot up there) the 12" would be enough and more practical. For me personally I work from home and its easy to do 6 hours interval measurements, so like you said its not going to stack up too high with the 6 hour clears.

Maybe at Mitch's spot if he is doing once a day measurements he would need the 36" possibly more often than most others on this board, but still probably infrequent.

 

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25 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Maybe at Mitch's spot if he is doing once a day measurements he would need the 36" possibly more often than most others on this board, but still probably infrequent.

 

Agreed, although still a minor component of most people’s snow observations toolkit, depending on Mitch’s measurement interval at that location/elevation, he could be one of the best candidates to at least have a long measurement ruler – with the right track we know what those coastals can often do at elevation in the Southern Greens.

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10 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

https://www.amazon.com/Tenths-Ruler-36-Inch/dp/B003G560AK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508332324&sr=8-1&keywords=tenths+ruler+36

I have this one in the 24" version, I think you will be needing the 36" version more than me that's for sure :( Its pretty thin, but like you mention, not many options out there.

 

Thanks...I don't know how you found it, but that's exactly what I was looking for. Maybe I was not entering the correct search terms. Ordered it. 

7 hours ago, J.Spin said:

 

Thanks for responding backedge, I was going to point out the Amazon options as well.  What you want to look for are drafting rulers and navigation rulers, those are the disciplines that seem to have the most tenth of an inch ruler options.

 

Note that measuring to the tenth of an inch is only for snowfall measurements though, not snowpack measurements, which are only to the nearest inch or half inch.  Therefore, you don’t actually need a long tenths of an inch ruler unless you’re planning on something special like a stationary snowfall measurement ruler or something.

 

Your tenths of an inch ruler is something you want to be able whip out quickly for frequent snowfall measurements and view at eye level if possible, so going with too much length for that application can be unwieldy.  I think 24” is about as long as one would want to go, but even that is going to be longer than you need most of the time.  Even if you’re only going to measure snowfall at the minimum interval of once a day, how many storms do we get where you’re going to have 24 inches of settled snowfall (which actually means more than 24 inches of snow fell) in 24 hours?  It can happen, so it might be nice to have a 24” or 36” tenths of an inch ruler on hand for those rare occasions if you’re a once-a-day measurer, but 99% of the time you’re going to want a 12” ruler for ease of use.

 

I have two 18” plastic navigator’s rulers, and in my years of measurement I can’t think of more than a few times I’ve had to measure a snow accumulation stack greater than 12”.  Granted, I try to make 6 to 12-hour snowfall measurements, so exceeding a foot of accumulation during those durations is pretty rare.  One of those 18” rulers broke a while back, so I used one end to create a 6” ruler and punched a hole in it so that I could string it around my neck when I head out (you’d be amazed at how easy it can be to lose rulers in deep snow if you’ve got a lot of other observational chores to do).  That 6” ruler is all I use for more than 95% of my snowfall measurements, so having a 6” or 12” ruler is something to think about.

I like to be prepared, so I ordered the 36" version that backedge suggested. ;) 

To be "official" I intend to get a 2' by 2' piece of plywood and paint it white as well since this will minimize melting from solar insolation and from the ground below should it be warm.  Siting the board may be a bit of a challenge at first since I don't know how things will drift there yet.

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