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2014-15 Total New England Snow Table


Kevin W

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LOL.

 

As you know, the last three winters are not the normal down here. Not sure how realistic your relocation comment was, but don't expect 80+ " of year and winter tempests as the norm. :lol: Sounds like you are in a good spot anyways...your time to get on the + side for departures will come soon.

 

LOL, no, as they seem to say on the New England Forum at American Weather… we jest… we heavily jest. Relocation is definitely not on the radar (although my wife is actually from Norwell in the South Shore area, and family is there).  It was just kind of comical to think of leaving the upslope zone of the Northern Greens in search of a location with subjectively more “interesting” storms.  Based on total snowfall and occurrence of large storms, I’m not sure where one would go in New England outside of heading well up into the higher elevations.  Yeah this area is known for the consistent snowfalls from smaller events, but it’s not as if that’s at the expense of the synoptic storms; it’s typically an addition to that baseline snowfall.  When I run the seasonal numbers for larger storms, the average here is one to two storms of 18” each season, and roughly eight that hit warning level.  I suspect there are areas in New England that are biased toward getting their snowfall more exclusively from larger events, but I’d be surprised if there were areas outside the mountains that average significantly higher numbers of large events.  It would be interesting to see some of the numbers from various New England stations to know what’s typical in that regard.  From a skier’s perspective, the snowfall pattern here is fairly ideal, with the usual allotment of synoptic storms augmented by smaller events and upslope delivering in between to keep the snow fresh.  Then of course there’s the usual run of the mill two- to four-foot storm cycles that hit the local mountains on average about three times each season.  Those weenies are a discerning bunch though, and the snowfall numbers here don’t always quite cut it.  They’re still taking toaster baths in droves because of the climate.  They’re usually seen holding a snow globe, cursing at it and shaking it violently, with a gurgling cacophony of expletives coming from their mouth as they go down.

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Yeah, I can definitely relate; it’s often very frustrating. It’s funny that you bring it up though, because after four subpar seasons in a row up here, the winters have been feeling sort of monotonous, and we’ve been considering a relocation down to the South Shore area where some of my wife’s family lives. I turns out that we’re not alone with respect to this sort of conundrum. While the larger story in Vermont is the exodus of twenty somethings looking for greater employment opportunities in larger metropolitan areas, there’s also been another efflux of people leaving because of the climate. More and more people are simply leaving because they’re realizing how banal the winters are. When the Chamber of Commerce sets up their survey checkpoints on the highway to get feedback from the droves relocating to other regional locales, the typical exchange goes something like this:

Chamber of Commerce Representative: “Sir, may I ask why you’re moving away from the area?”

Disillusioned Citizen: “Sure, no problem, happy to help. You see, I’m sort of a ‘winter weather weenie’, and I moved up here to the Northern Greens because I heard that it was the snowiest place in all of eastern North America. It hasn’t really worked out though; the wintry ‘vibe’ around here isn’t really cutting it for me, what with the six months of winter, hundreds of inches of snow, deep snowpack, several dozen snowstorms a season, etc. I’m sort of looking for a place where I can cut my snowfall down to a fraction of what I’m getting now, pack the winter into a one month period, and enjoy fantasy snowstorms on the weather models for the other five months so I’m not so… you know… ‘bored’ all the time.”

Chamber of Commerce Representative: “Totally understood, we get that all the time. Have a safe trip, we hope you come back and visit for some skiing!”

This is the best post of JSpin's I've ever seen...lol, well done.

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 Yeah this area is known for the consistent snowfalls from smaller events, but it’s not as if that’s at the expense of the synoptic storms; it’s typically an addition to that baseline snowfall.  When I run the seasonal numbers for larger storms, the average here is one to two storms of 18” each season, and roughly eight that hit warning level.  I suspect there are areas in New England that are biased toward getting their snowfall more exclusively from larger events, but I’d be surprised if there were areas outside the mountains that average significantly higher numbers of large events. 

 

These are good points, I mean, this past winter we literally missed the storm track most of the time outside of early season when we had some fun in Nov/Dec.  So it may have been boring this season, but the mountains kept at least consistent snow coming even though we were whiffing left and right. 

 

Sometimes you win the game with a grand-slam, other times, like this year, you win with a bases-loaded walk.  But it snows regardless.

 

The fact that your average is 1-2 storms of 18"+ per season, and an average of eight warning critera storms (that right there would account for well over the seasonal normal snowfall at some places in New England)...means that when we do get those fun winters, its real fun.

 

Just looking back at some of your other years, I'm looking forward to getting back into these winters when we were getting solid synoptic and mesoscale snows... the spoiled years when we would get 7 different double digit snowfalls, haha.

 

1011numberedsnowfallevents.jpg

 

0809datedsnowfallevents.jpg

 

14APR08D.jpg

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  • 5 weeks later...

I agree that up here it was a boring winter except for early on with pretty much all nickel and dime events. We obviously missed out on every big event for the most part and I believe BTV ended up right around normal for the season. The winter just fizzled out in March in terms of snow. It was nice and consistent in the mountains for skiing which was the saving grace. Of course moving to Southern New England now is kind of chasing what already happened. You are not going to get another season like they just had for quiet a long time. I know I have never seen a 30"+ event, and would love to at some point, but my best odds of that would be chasing a lake effect band.

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My 3rd snowiest of 17 winters here, but way behind the top two - 30" short of 07-08 and 25 away from 00-01.  It was thoroughly average for notable events, except for the Jna blizzard, only my 4th at 20"+.  My avg number of storms of 4", 6", 8", 10" is 8, 5, 3, and 2, respectively.  Last winter had 9 events of 4"+, while the 6/8/10 numbers were exactly on the average.  Snowpack depth was a bit above avg, though it peaked on Feb 2, neartly a month earlier than the avg peaking date.  The Novie snows plus late winter cold enabled snowpack duration to reach 150 days, a new high, and 142 consecutive, tying 02-3.  I'd be more enthusiastic but for the near misses and could-have-beens.  Having 4 WSWs, including my first pre-storm blizz warning in quite a while, verify at just 1/8 of the low end of forecast snowfall range took the steam out of the season.

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  • 4 months later...

You wouldn't meh 200" though.

Not at all...even if it all can in 8" or less snowfalls. Haha, well... But HubbDave getting 100" isn't like me getting 200".  That'd probably be like a 150" winter.

Anyway you know what I meant. I had 126" and JSpin had 144" but it was literally the most boring way you could go about getting those amounts.

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Would you prefer 200" of huge events in between rain and melting or a winter like last?

 

Good description (though 50% high for snowfall) for 1995-96 in central Maine.  No blockbusters that far north but a bunch of 6-8" events with a couple near 15", but big thaws in late Jan and late Feb, sufficient to cause ice jam flooding and make a mess of winter logging.

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200" in big events...even with thaws that would be a heck of a fun winter.

 

I would of thought you being a big ski bum you'd want consistent snowpack with nickel and dime events.

 

Yeah, that sort of regime is undoubtedly good for general ski conditions (especially on piste) assuming it comes along with consistent cold; sort of like the way parts of Quebec ski country, or the front ranges of the Rockies can be at times.  The snow preservation is great, but it may not mean a lot of big powder days.  As PF suggested above, I think a lot of avid skiers with off piste skiing in mind would take a bit more volatility in the winter pattern to get those big storms and powder days.  I certainly lean that way, especially if the “preservation” pattern like last season means such relentless, frigid temperatures.  I’d say last season up here in Northern Vermont was probably more typical of what areas farther north in Quebec might experience.

 

The high annual snowfall numbers probably speak to it anyway, but I actually think that the Northern Greens are in a bit of a sweet spot for the Northeast with respect to combining a decent level of temperature consistency/snow preservation/daily refresher snowfalls with access to ample storms.  I agree with PF; we’ll definitely take 200”, even if it comes with volatility.  If we’re getting 200” in the valleys (along the lines of 2007-2008 or 2010-2011), then we’ll gladly accept some mixed precipitation or rain that goes with it.  With numbers like that in the valleys, you can be pushing 400” of snowfall in the mountains, and when the snow is falling at that pace, insults to the snowpack are typically erased pretty quickly.

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I would of thought you being a big ski bum you'd want consistent snowpack with nickel and dime events.

 

Yeah I think you are thinking in terms of SNE thaws or something.  If we get 200" in the mountain valleys (as J.Spin said, like some of the big winters such as 2007-2008)...that's still going to accumulate fine for a snowpack.  It would be very hard to get that amount of snow, and have thaws consistently wipe it to grass.  It would be a ridiculous amount of precipitation and up/down temp swings. 

 

I think any winter that brings enough storms to get 150-200" in the mountain valleys, is going to be a fun winter.  That translates to 350-400" across the Spine.  Even if it rained once a week, there would be so much ample powder skiing because you'd have to have enough snowfall to accumulate to those amounts.  Those are the winters I'm clearing 36" per week during the heart of winter at 3,000ft.  If that came with taint, so be it.

 

I'll always pick bring the big snows and roll the dice up here.  Mostly because our "default" winter is nickel and dime.

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Good description (though 50% high for snowfall) for 1995-96 in central Maine.  No blockbusters that far north but a bunch of 6-8" events with a couple near 15", but big thaws in late Jan and late Feb, sufficient to cause ice jam flooding and make a mess of winter logging.

 

That's probably the best analog year to what he was describing.... lots of ups and downs on the snow plot, but eventually the shear quantity of snow will over-whelm the thaws.  Big snow years with thaws should still give plenty of positive snow accumulation.  Given what "above normal" snow here means, 350"+ at the peaks, even thaws won't be able to keep up with squashing that.  Though you can tell where the January thaw is on this:

 

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