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Central PA and The Fringes - February 2014 Part II


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26 with a DP of 12 right now. Hoping for mostly snow up here just north of Scranton.
 
History has been if there is strong WAA and the BGM area is modeled to turn to ice then we go over earlier than the models say. If the dividing line is AVP we tend to stay snow and don't flip while the valley cities see some ice. We will see.

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I've lived in many places and had lots of different electrical companies. PPL is in my opinion bar none the best at responding to outages. Talk to a Met-Ed customer and ask them what they think about their provider ...

 

They do prestage well, I've seen quite a few armada of trucks around getting ready today actually.

Adams Electrical Coop does a good job too.

 

I lol'd. No kidding. This stuff out there is like a brick. Shenks parking lot has cars all caked in. There's going to be a lot of cemented cars tomorrow

I lived in Shenks for years, even was an RA for a time.  Had Room 314...aka the pi room (get it, 3.14 :nerd: )

 

Quick question I have a new generator and was wondering any way to plug it in to mAke your furnace run. Thanks

What do you mean by "plug it in"?  Are you trying to back feed your house?  I would advise against doing that, as that can cause electrical overloads in your house.  Either consult a licensed electrician or read both the furnace and heater manuals.

 

Can you provide evidence to support this claim? When is an inch of ice (which is on the models) not a crippling event?

The NAM is notorious for throwing out large ice amounts.  I've seen it time after time, only to have a few icicles on the trees or stop signs.  I have yet to see one official forecast call for more than 1/2" ice.  You really don't get major, widespread crippling infrastructure problems that last for days until you hit the 0.75" < amounts.  

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CTP's maps has me at 1-2 inches of snow and .01-.10 of ice. Is this a non event here in Schuylkill County or what? I'm perplexed. I've been working and driving all day and haven't really had time to look at models or anything yet....

 

***Edited to add that State College's and Mount Holly's maps for this system are WORLD'S apart at this time.***

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It won't.  Progressive systems such as this with marginal air masses don't produce big ice storms.  Doubtful any of the population centers get more than 0.25".  Power outages won't be a big deal either, as it should be just wires down and not major infrastructure damage like poles, substations and transformers.  And before people go and steam roll me for downplaying this event, chill out.  I've been on conference calls all day and the general thinking is that this isn't a once-in-a-lifetime, save-the-children ice storm.  Just a pain in the neck.

I don't think people think its a once in a lifetime event unless your young but and outage in the winter leaving people without heat is a big deal if its for an extended period of time. Things get fixed quicker in Major Metropolitan areas then up here. I not trying to be critical but u have been saying things all year  that u need to get the Maryland or DC area weather and climate  out of your head.

 

Edit: I hope your right.

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If you're not sure at this moment, call an electrician. There's an easy way to do it, but I wouldn't recommend it for someone not familiar with electrical circuits due to the dangers involved, including fire and death.

Turn off the main and plug generator into 220 outlet(dryer) to power up the panel?

 

safe?

 

prob not...but i would try it if i really had to.

 

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Can you provide evidence to support this claim? When is an inch of ice (which is on the models) not a crippling event?

just because a model shows an inch of precip falling during favorable conditions for freezing rain doesnt mean it will accumulate to an inch of ice... heavy rates will runoff before all freezes

 

RGEM had about 1.5" as ice during a previous storm and we ended up with .25"

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just because a model shows an inch of precip falling during favorable conditions for freezing rain doesnt mean it will accumulate to an inch of ice... heavy rates will runoff before all freezes

 

RGEM had about 1.5" as ice during a previous storm and we ended up with .25"

 

True, but those storms were not expected to produce that much ice. This time we know most will be ZR. 

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Wow Ctp just axed snowfall between the turnpike and 80 a bit. Some places went from 4-6 to 1-2. Funny when nothing in the 18z package was any warmer then 12z. Just wish I knew what they were thinking sometimes. I thought they were too bullish for the central 3rd earlier and they jumped right to bearish.

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It won't.  Progressive systems such as this with marginal air masses don't produce big ice storms.  Doubtful any of the population centers get more than 0.25".  Power outages won't be a big deal either, as it should be just wires down and not major infrastructure damage like poles, substations and transformers.  And before people go and steam roll me for downplaying this event, chill out.  I've been on conference calls all day and the general thinking is that this isn't a once-in-a-lifetime, save-the-children ice storm.  Just a pain in the neck.

 

Joe, how can you dismiss this so non-chalantly?  Ever since my post a few hours ago where I layed out my case for why I felt this ice storm has the potential to be crippling, I was thinking to my self that this storm could turn out to be "The Perfect Storm" for ice.  Of course, the premise I lay out completely depends on us receiving the very high amounts of freezing rain that some models have been predicting.

 

Why do I call it "The Perfect Storm"?  Because of the weight of all the snow/ice now stuck to all of our trees and shrubs.  I know this isn't overly scientific, but I've been trying to estimate what is the volume of ice accretion (by weight) now sticking to everything?  I am thinking that it actually is between 0.15" and 0.25".  So, in essence, we are starting out this upcoming storm with the accreted weight of those values.  Now, let's say that roughly 0.50" of ice successfully accretes by the time the storm ends.  The effective weight will really be like as much as 0.75" of accretion, and thus the damage produced will be amplified.  Because of this, I believe the possibility is greater now that we reach the level 3 of storm damage from Zak's ice chart.

 

I don't want any ice accretion and am praying that the majority falls as frozen instead of freezing.

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True, but those storms were not expected to produce that much ice. This time we know most will be ZR. 

low dew points will help fight the warm air moving in at first... but they will eventually climb into at least the upper 20s if not low 30s... that will not be cold enough to force all falling precip to freeze right away... rainfall rates will be too heavy for all of it to freeze before dripping from the trees... will it eventually freeze at the surface? possibly

 

Joe, how can you dismiss this so non-chalantly?  Ever since my post a few hours ago where I layed out my case for why I felt this ice storm has the potential to be crippling, I was thinking to my self that this storm could turn out to be "The Perfect Storm" for ice.  Of course, the premise I lay out completely depends on us receiving the very high amounts of freezing rain that some models have been predicting.

 

Why do I call it "The Perfect Storm"?  Because of the weight of all the snow/ice now stuck to all of our trees and shrubs.  I know this isn't overly scientific, but I've been trying to estimate what is the volume of ice accretion (by weight) now sticking to everything?  I am thinking that it actually is between 0.15" and 0.25".  So, in essence, we are starting out this upcoming storm with the accreted weight of those values.  Now, let's say that roughly 0.50" of ice successfully accretes by the time the storm ends?  The effective weight will really be like as much as 0.25" of accretion, and thus the damage produced will be amplified.  Because of this, I believe the possibility is greater now that we reach the level 3 of storm damage from Zak's ice chart.

 

I don't want any ice accretion and am praying that the majority falls as frozen instead of freezing.

 

even though some snow is still on the trees a droplet warm enough to be a rain drop will cause a mix of some melting of that snow and refreeze... not all will hit branches and freeze on impact...  the weight on the branches yesterday was heavier than what a quarter inch ice will have and without... without significant wind we will need more than a half inch of ice forming on trees and i just dont see it

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CTP

 

IN THE LAURELS AND SC MTNS...SIGNIFICANT ICE ACCRETIONS POSS. IF
COLDER AIR WINS OUT FOR A LONGER PERIOD...SLEET WILL CUT DOWN ON
ICE AMOUNTS. BUT EVENTUALLY THE WARMER AIR WILL ALLOW THE ICE TO
WIN OUT. SIGNIFICANT TRAVEL PROBLEMS ARE POSSIBLE. POWER OUTAGES
AS WELL...DUE TO THE WEIGHT OF ANY SIGNIFICANT ICE AND SNOW.

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low dew points will help fight the warm air moving in at first... but they will eventually climb into at least the upper 20s if not low 30s... that will not be cold enough to force all falling precip to freeze right away... rainfall rates will be too heavy for all of it to freeze before dripping from the trees... will it eventually freeze at the surface? possibly

 

 

even though some snow is still on the trees a droplet warm enough to be a rain drop will cause a mix of some melting of that snow and refreeze... not all will hit branches and freeze on impact...  the weight on the branches yesterday was heavier than what a quarter inch ice will have and without... without significant wind we will need more than a half inch of ice forming on trees and i just dont see it

 

More than half an inch? What super strong trees do you have? Once it hits .3" here stuff starts going down. 

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Im not telling him to do it..I was asking you if that was what you were talking about.

No. I'd never try to feed an entire house through 1 receptacle. The transient portion of the current could very well start a fire, even on the 220 line.

The only safe location with which to power the entire home is at the main.

For powering the furnace, isolating it from the rest of the house via breaker and receptacle is the safest route, but requires amending the existing wiring which is beyond most homeowners.

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