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December 2023


brooklynwx99
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2 hours ago, rehjr said:

Is china currently in a month long cold spell shattering records on not? Yes or no? Is Germany also? There is lots of cold covering the northern hemisphere. Just because NYC isn’t cold doesn’t mean climate change is running wild. I believe the globe has warmed. It always has. It always will. It will also cool. Always have always will. I was alive in the 1970’s when the earth was supposed to be entering an ice age. Depleted ozone layer was going to kill us all in the 1980’s. Al Gore predicted by now we would all be buried under water. Guess what? None of it ever happened just like all the doom and gloom crowd is saying now. Everything will be fine. Enjoy life. Greta Thornberg lol 

You are not going to last around here if you have no idea what you're talking about but pretend that you do. I'm not a climatologist, but I am educated and I can read, and the experts are clear about what is going on. It's settled science. If you can't accept it you won't find a welcome audience here. Remember, science does not care if you have a grudge with Al Gore or not. There are plenty of published papers on this topic you can read; hell, you can just read the abstracts and that will convince you. 

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2 hours ago, NittanyWx said:

Ok, get what you're saying now.

 

Only reason I'm kinda hammering on this tropical forcing vs model T2m point is because I think it was a situation, and clear a clear one at that, that we can learn from as forecasters and apply to future predictions.

 

Multi-faceted signal that - even in a situation where tropics were underamped - the model was still able to lead you to a place where you'd be happy going warm to very warm week 3/4.

Yeah, I like manually correcting the model biases and arriving at a composite that I feel will work given the various factors at play and known model biases. Everyone gets to see the raw model output. So to take it to the next level you need to have a reasonable guess where the model errors and biases are. A bit like what the MOS numbers do for various locations but correcting the actual 500 mb  temperature maps. I would love to automate my manual process and develop a monthly subscription based app that corrects all the model output. 

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3 minutes ago, Dark Star said:

Could happen but it seems to be threading a needle with diverting warm air farther into the arctic?

i mean, you want AK and Arctic ridging to displace air, and if there is ridging in those areas, it is going to be above normal

hell, if I could have it my way, I would want the North Pole +30 degrees to get all that colder air out and into the US

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29 minutes ago, weatherpruf said:

You are not going to last around here if you have no idea what you're talking about but pretend that you do. I'm not a climatologist, but I am educated and I can read, and the experts are clear about what is going on. It's settled science. If you can't accept it you won't find a welcome audience here. Remember, science does not care if you have a grudge with Al Gore or not. There are plenty of published papers on this topic you can read; hell, you can just read the abstracts and that will convince you. 

Good afternoon w p. For some the tale is ‘Once upon a time …. they lived happily ever after.’ Without a thought of what’s happening, what it takes and/or how to get, from one point to the other. The photos below were second week of December NYC 40 N L, 2023.
 

.

IMG_0221.jpeg

IMG_0220.jpeg

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1 minute ago, qg_omega said:

Negative PNA is favored for January

a trough undercutting a -EPO is not the same pattern as a traditional -PNA. they're two different patterns. early Jan looks more like active split flow with AN heights in northern Canada... that isn't really a -PNA

February 2023 is more of a typical -PNA

ecmwf-ensemble-avg-namer-z500_anom_1day-4456000.thumb.png.8aab34be098754b9a919fe16843bcbea.pngtme7CQhDoI.png.9509b9ae8fbd67a50b8c69eb778797dd.png

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17 minutes ago, brooklynwx99 said:

a trough undercutting a -EPO is not the same pattern as a traditional -PNA. they're two different patterns. early Jan looks more like active split flow with AN heights in northern Canada... that isn't really a -PNA

February 2023 is more of a typical -PNA

ecmwf-ensemble-avg-namer-z500_anom_1day-4456000.thumb.png.8aab34be098754b9a919fe16843bcbea.pngtme7CQhDoI.png.9509b9ae8fbd67a50b8c69eb778797dd.png

Ok

https://x.com/paulroundy1/status/1737798350517252271?s=46&t=m4Eqkekadb-JCXTm7k-Txg

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4 minutes ago, qg_omega said:

what does this have anything to do with the beginning of the month? that's for late January

I agree that we may see -PNA periods mid to late month as the jet retracts, but i wouldn't say that it's favored for the whole month

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Yeah, the rapid SST increase in the Eastern IO could favor the convection moving there in the coming weeks combined with the El Niño would favor an undercutting SW trough. It’s what you get when the MJO 2-4 El Niño composites are blended together. That SST rebound is following the IOD peak. 

19BD200E-1400-4ACF-A257-12B831B2F7C4.gif.077d7aecc84e0c127541e56cc68cfc46.gif

C9E3F768-7C0F-4146-B4DB-342BE7245666.thumb.png.1588b9f521732d216c68c2260ab9e8db.png

 

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Just a note that the GFS Ens has been posting higher skill scores in the 6-10 at 2m and suspect the EC Ens surface reflections will end up a couple degrees too cold.  Sadly even the GFS Op has had less of a cold bias past 3 weeks. 

 

That said, do believe the base state is changing from December.  Not a great source region still, but not as dire as late Dec. 

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Yeah, the rapid SST increase in the Eastern IO could favor the convection moving there in the coming weeks combined with the El Niño would favor an undercutting SW trough. It’s what you get when the MJO 2-4 El Niño composites are blended together. That SST rebound is following the IOD peak. 

19BD200E-1400-4ACF-A257-12B831B2F7C4.gif.077d7aecc84e0c127541e56cc68cfc46.gif
C9E3F768-7C0F-4146-B4DB-342BE7245666.thumb.png.1588b9f521732d216c68c2260ab9e8db.png
 

The +IOD is falling apart very rapidly now. As you said the waters in the eastern IO and around Indonesia are warming very quickly, which is going to promote more convection (MJO) there….convection always fires over the warmest SSTs

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It’s not the “classic” Niña RNA/SE ridge pattern we saw last year, that said, the tropical forcing definitely supports -PNA mid-late month. Also, our source region cold/record low snowcover/sea ice will continue to be an issue, no, not as bad as December due to the longwave change in early January, but still no true arctic cold in Canada. It will take a lot of sustained cross-polar flow and snow buildup to fix that. The models are overdoing the early January “cold” IMO and will get warmer as we get closer. While I think it cools off in early January, it’s a cool off from the very warm departures to near normal not “cold”



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19 minutes ago, snowman19 said:


It’s not the “classic” Niña RNA/SE ridge pattern we saw last year, that said, the tropical forcing definitely supports -PNA mid-late month. Also, our source region cold/record low snowcover/sea ice will continue to be an issue, no, not as bad as December due to the longwave change in early January, but still no true arctic cold in Canada. It will take a lot of sustained cross-polar flow and snow buildup to fix that. The models are overdoing the early January “cold” IMO and will get warmer as we get closer. While I think it cools off in early January, it’s a cool off from the very warm departures to near normal not “cold”

 

 

 

 

"Near normal" in early January is cold! You keep talking about those who are saying arctic cold is coming are going to be disappointed when as far as I have read for the past 83 pages, nobody has even mentioned arctic cold or sustained below average temperatures. Many are saying the pattern is improving. And I don't get the point you are trying to make. People mention we could have a few shots at cool temps with snow chances and you then post about no arctic cold. You cannot honestly look at the incoming pattern and tell me that it is as hostile to snowfall as the current pattern we have been in for a little over a week now. 

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One of the worst statements in the public lexicon to come out of the early part of the 2010s is  the phrase, “the science is settled”; and followed as of late the phrase “the science has evolved”. 

Absolute tripe. Why not state “here’s my theory, and here’s my defense of that theory”. This applies regardless, if the theory of AGW is accurate or not. 

Sorry, I couldn’t resist the professor’s commentary. And I know this is banter, but it needs to be said. 

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