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February 10-12, 2021 Winter Event


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To be honest.. after watching everyone of the models.. run after run.. day after day with all the adjustments that happen after each run. You could drop a pin on any model and that outcome would have the same chance of being right as the one beside it. All these waves so close together just seems model dont know how to handle them in our current setup. But im a betting man and as long as this can continue for another few weeks I'd put my money on everyone in here getting hit at least once eventually.  Just the sooner the better to calm the nerves of some. 

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3 minutes ago, Whitecheddar said:

To be honest.. after watching everyone of the models.. run after run.. day after day with all the adjustments that happen after each run. You could drop a pin on any model and that outcome would have the same chance of being right as the one beside it. All these waves so close together just seems model dont know how to handle them in our current setup. But im a betting man and as long as this can continue for another few weeks I'd put my money on everyone in here getting hit at least once eventually.  Just the sooner the better to calm the nerves of some. 

I'm not so confident this is going to continue for another few weeks. I think we've got this week and first half of next week for a ripe setup. Heard things like the AO, NAO, and PNA are headed in rough directions after that. Also with days getting longer, sun angle, yada yada. Hopefully we all cash in with one of these next couple events. 

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3 minutes ago, Whitecheddar said:

To be honest.. after watching everyone of the models.. run after run.. day after day with all the adjustments that happen after each run. You could drop a pin on any model and that outcome would have the same chance of being right as the one beside it. All these waves so close together just seems model dont know how to handle them in our current setup. But im a betting man and as long as this can continue for another few weeks I'd put my money on everyone in here getting hit at least once eventually.  Just the sooner the better to calm the nerves of some. 

This is all because we are pushing for a level of detail at ranges that NWP is not capable of giving yet.  It is getting MUCH better.  Day 5 forecasts are more accurate then day 3 was not that long ago.  But when I first started doing this no one took day 5 or even day 3 seriously in terms of gleaning very meso scale specific details.  Trying to nail the exact rain snow line to within 20 miles, or the exact location of the northern fringe of precip with a synoptic wave.  But now we start trying to do that at day 5 or even longer range.  That is crazy and while the guidance has gotten better, not at the same rate as our ridiculous expectations.  

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Just now, Bob Chill said:

Are the models really all over the place though? 75 miles is huge only in comparison to back yards. The stripe has always been narrow and it's a boundary and not a "storm". Model spread like this is completely normal. 

Think this is true but the euro is a little outside of that range. And 75 miles is pretty big in an east west event made even more so by the fact that it’s a narrow stripe to begin with. That’s more than a degree latitude.

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4 minutes ago, Steve25 said:

I'm not so confident this is going to continue for another few weeks. I think we've got this week and first half of next week for a ripe setup. Heard things like the AO, NAO, and PNA are headed in rough directions after that. Also with days getting longer, sun angle, yada yada. Hopefully we all cash in with one of these next couple events. 

I def agree with you but at the same time we have seen the pattern in the 14 day frame show a change coming only to recharge the whole pattern as it gets closer just another example of the models making its best guess and us thinking oh no we only have this 7 day window to cash in but it turns out the recharge makes it an even more favorable condition for us. Like compare now to 2 weeks ago.. We finally have at least a little cold air in the mix. Who knows 14 days from now the block might position itself perfectly and we get that monster Miller A from the gulf. I guess that's what makes this all our hobby. The unknown is real.

7 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

This is all because we are pushing for a level of detail at ranges that NWP is not capable of giving yet.  It is getting MUCH better.  Day 5 forecasts are more accurate then day 3 was not that long ago.  But when I first started doing this no one took day 5 or even day 3 seriously in terms of gleaning very meso scale specific details.  Trying to nail the exact rain snow line to within 20 miles, or the exact location of the northern fringe of precip with a synoptic wave.  But now we start trying to do that at day 5 or even longer range.  That is crazy and while the guidance has gotten better, not at the same rate as our ridiculous expectations.  

Well said  especially in setups like this one that only happens a few times in a decade. Puts even more uncertainty in that 5 day window because the models are just supercomputers with what has happened in the past making that best guess for the future. But when we aren't in that simple pattern any one variable can push a jackpot Miller A hybrid at 0z to a suppressed shortwave down in Georgia the next. And us weenies feed off of the digital snow but we really need to just stay positive follow the trends and hope for a little luck. Just my opinion of course. 

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9 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Are the models really all over the place though? 75 miles is huge only in comparison to back yards. The stripe has always been narrow and it's a boundary and not a "storm". Model spread like this is completely normal. 

Yes and no.   Look at the difference in precip for VA between the 18z GFS and 18z Euro.  

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8 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Are the models really all over the place though? 75 miles is huge only in comparison to back yards. The stripe has always been narrow and it's a boundary and not a "storm". Model spread like this is completely normal. 

100% this post... but even with synoptic scale storms I've noticed the last few years a level of expectation that can't possibly be met.  Expecting to pin down exactly where the rain snow line will be from 100 hours away.  Or where the northern fringe is or where a deform band will set up to within a few miles.  By the time the storm comes people are exhausted because they started trying to nowcast those details when it was still 7 days away.  

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1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

100% this post... but even with synoptic scale storms I've noticed the last few years a level of expectation that can't possibly be met.  Expecting to pin down exactly where the rain snow line will be from 100 hours away.  Or where the northern fringe is or where a deform band will set up to within a few miles.  By the time the storm comes people are exhausted because they started trying to nowcast those details when it was still 7 days away.  

See my post though. Euro and GFS have totally different precip jackpots.  Almost 1”  QPF difference in some spots.  

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Just now, WinterWxLuvr said:

First guess? When does he plan on making an actual forecast? After the storm?

Saturday during our sleet bomb!

Really though, I’d love this forecast if I thought it had even a 5% chance of verifying 10” for mby. With the preponderance of guidance all moving away from high qpf/snow totals, I’m not sure how useful this type of first guess is....

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Just now, jaydreb said:

See my post though. Euro and GFS have totally different precip jackpots.  Almost 1”  QPF difference in some spots.  

The euro is pretty much on its own though with wave 1 which is only 24 hours away now.  The meso models all disagree and so do the rest of the globals.  That is a pretty strong case the euro is just off with wave 1.  Wave 2 the euro is a little south of other guidance but its really wave 1 being so dry on the euro that causes the extreme difference in the total storm representation.  

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3 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

100% this post... but even with synoptic scale storms I've noticed the last few years a level of expectation that can't possibly be met.  Expecting to pin down exactly where the rain snow line will be from 100 hours away.  Or where the northern fringe is or where a deform band will set up to within a few miles.  By the time the storm comes people are exhausted because they started trying to nowcast those details when it was still 7 days away.  

But we aren’t talking about 100 hours away. And we aren’t talking about one model and it’s variance. We are talking about the large disparity between models. How would you feel about a hurricane landfall forecast that was wrong by 75 miles 24 hours out?

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1 minute ago, psuhoffman said:

The euro is pretty much on its own though with wave 1 which is only 24 hours away now.  The meso models all disagree and so do the rest of the globals.  That is a pretty strong case the euro is just off with wave 1.  Wave 2 the euro is a little south of other guidance but its really wave 1 being so dry on the euro that causes the extreme difference in the total storm representation.  

And to be fair we don’t know it’s wrong yet.

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