HoarfrostHubb Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The sites in the pic that were 82-84 were 1090-1440 feet in el Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I can't. It's not a river valley and it's not topographic that I can tell. Just some weird feature that is prob only temporary. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 We talked about that earlier...look at the elevation of some of those sites. But if Hubb took that screen shot at the time he posted it, most sites had already been easing off their afternoon highs. Yes it was 82-85F at Savoy, Plainfield, Windsor, etc but they are 1,800-2,200ft (essentially MRG's 2kft sites). That should be 3-5F colder than MPM's elevation. Ginxy, I asked you earlier, but can you honestly look at the big picture and the area observations, and the scientist in you doesn't want to figure out why? You aren't intrigued as to how his temperature didn't rise at all this afternoon? How it steadily went up through 12:30 and then just stopped completely while everyone else continued to rise? I take Mikes word and vid for it, doesn't bother me or surprise me in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 PVD 97R BOS 96R BDL 96R ORH 90 Man two days ago I thought we'd be a few cooler. West winds and good mixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The sites in the pic that were 82-84 were 1090-1440 feet in el Did you snap that earlier in the day at like 2-3pm or was it when you posted it? MPM's site quickly fell in-line with other observations between 4-5pm when his temp held steady but the others started dropping. That's why I was hypothesizing its something that happens in the afternoon with relation to his siting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I take Mikes word and vid for it, doesn't bother me or surprise me in the least. Ok, I think I'm looking at it differently. Its not a personal attack that one thinks his word is bad or we don't believe him. I take his word for it too and I have no doubt that is the temperature where his Davis is located. His temps are usually in-line with other East Slope spots, it was just very noticeable today, and it can be tracked back to something happening between 12pm and 4pm, that wasn't happening at other sites. You can see it on the graphs, for some reason he doesn't see the rises in temperature after midday that the others see. Its not about lying, which like Will said, most folks think its a personal attack if obs are questioned. Its about being curious as to why it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Ok, I think I'm looking at it differently. Its not a personal attack that one thinks his word is bad or we don't believe him. I take his word for it too and I have no doubt that is the temperature where his Davis is located. His temps are usually in-line with other East Slope spots, it was just very noticeable today. You can see it on the graphs, for some reason he doesn't see the rises in temperature after midday that the others see. Its not about lying, which like Will said, most folks think its a personal attack if obs are questioned. Its about being curious as to why it is what it is. Yep, it definitely does not match up with the other obs in the other rural towns. Plainfield being 84F at 1800 feet is actually evidence against the Shelburn obs. Not for it. I am intrigued as to why it reads so much cooler. Some will take it personally, but they shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 This is the MPM topo based on the lat/long from his station DW5935. Not sure if he posted it when we all were, but I don't feel like looking back. He's on a south facing hill and has 1300-1500' elevations just to his N and W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 This is the MPM topo based on the lat/long from his station DW5935. Not sure if he posted it when we all were, but I don't feel like looking back. mpmtopo.PNG He's on a south facing hill and has 1300-1500' elevations just to his N and W. I wonder if that 1500 foot hill just to his west puts him in shade really early. Though I'd expect that hill to be much closer if that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Man just saw BTV put up a +19 departure yesterday in the means...that's pretty darn high. First week of September is +8 for a departure at BTV/MVL. Almost certainly a lock for an AN month at this point looking at the forecast going forward too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 This is the MPM topo based on the lat/long from his station DW5935. Not sure if he posted it when we all were, but I don't feel like looking back. mpmtopo.PNG He's on a south facing hill and has 1300-1500' elevations just to his N and W. I wonder if that higher hill shades him to some degree? Its not that much higher but could do it? If he's on a south facing slope, I'd almost expect it to run warm, not cold. He has mentioned this row of trees several times, that coupled with a hill may do it. Who knows. Its just something to discuss during summer doldrums. His property looks beautiful though from his pictures...awesome spot. I think MPM will be awed to know he's taken up 2-3 pages of discussion now haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Huge Taylor Made event here at work, they decided to eat outside tonight a month ago, lol. I'll watch from inside the 68 degree building. Servers and bartenders are not happy. Jason Day just walked by me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Huge Taylor Made event here at work, they decided to eat outside tonight a month ago, lol. I'll watch from inside the 68 degree building. Servers and bartenders are not happy. Jason Day just walked by me Looks awesome Ginxy. Nice presentation. Love the stainless steel serpentine buffet tables. Top-quality stuff with that High-Boy cocktail table dress-up. Used to do banquet set-up design for several years at the Hilton Hotel in Burlington, you've got a high-quality presentation right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I wonder if that higher hill shades him to some degree? Its not that much higher but could do it? If he's on a south facing slope, I'd almost expect it to run warm, not cold. He has mentioned this row of trees several times, that coupled with a hill may do it. Who knows. Its just something to discuss during summer doldrums. His property looks beautiful though from his pictures...awesome spot. I think MPM will be awed to know he's taken up 2-3 pages of discussion now haha. Yeah...my guess is shade. I tend to run a little cool, but I'm on a north facing slope and have a large pine forest in the back on the W side. The shade doesn't start hitting the Davis until after peak heating, but I'm sure any W component to the flow has some influence on the cooler temps. Then you factor in more vegetation than the airport and it all probably explains why I run about 1F below MADIS on max temps. There are some local sites near my el that jive with my temps though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekuasepinniW Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Love the stainless steel serpentine buffet tables. I have no idea why I find this so funny, but I do. I need to update my "things I know about powderfreak" list likes snow hates MVL's rain gauge loves serpentine steel buffet tables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whineminster Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Wow lots of MPM criticism going on in here, can't anyone just except a temp reading for what it is? Without looking for ways it's wrong? Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Wow lots of MPM criticism going on in here, can't anyone just except a temp reading for what it is? Without looking for ways it's wrong? Sent from my HTC One And we found someone who thinks asking a question about observations thinks its a personal attack on that person. Who is criticizing MPM personally? I didn't wake up today being like, well let me look for ways to find MPM's temperatures are wrong, lol. He's a grown ssa man who is successful and very smart...he obviously knows how to set-up a weather station and its all online for all to see. Its not like he's making it up. We are just asking why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I have no idea why I find this so funny, but I do. I need to update my "things I know about powderfreak" list likes snow hates MVL's rain gauge loves serpentine steel buffet tables Those things really get me going. What a beautiful buffet line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 And we found someone who thinks asking a question about observations thinks its a personal attack on that person. Who is criticizing MPM personally? I didn't wake up today being like, well let me look for ways to find MPM's temperatures are wrong, lol. Lol that was the first reaction that came to my mind. He clearly didn't read through te discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Looks awesome Ginxy. Nice presentation. Love the stainless steel serpentine buffet tables. Top-quality stuff with that High-Boy cocktail table dress-up. Used to do banquet set-up design for several years at the Hilton Hotel in Burlington, you've got a high-quality presentation right there.inside for Jason Days presentation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Yeah...my guess is shade. I tend to run a little cool, but I'm on a north facing slope and have a large pine forest in the back on the W side. The shade doesn't start hitting the Davis until after peak heating, but I'm sure any W component to the flow has some influence on the cooler temps. Then you factor in more vegetation than the airport and it all probably explains why I run about 1F below MADIS on max temps. There are some local sites near my el that jive with my temps though. I just found the CWOP analysis page and looked over some MADIS data. Looks like my local PWS runs a bit too cool during the daytime, haha. Since it was the discussion today, I looked at DW5935 for MPM's station analysis. Maybe you can help me interpret these graphs as I'm in over my head at this point: Here's the nighttime graph with DW5935 being the darker circle: And here is the daytime graph with DW5935 on the right side border. What is this telling us? lol, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I take Mikes word and vid for it, doesn't bother me or surprise me in the least. I know this area quite well and it doesn't surprise me in the least. If there were some stations on line in Colrain or W. Leyden I bet we would see some similar readings to MPM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoob40 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Shelbourne is indeed one magical place if he can be the same temp at a site 1100' feet higher than his (Windsor) and 3 degrees cooler than Peru at 1800', Ginxy's thoughts notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Still 81 here. Won't drop below 73-74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Still 81 here. Won't drop below 73-74 Full on Key West style evening on tap. The earlier sunset these days gives us more evening hours of darkness to enjoy the warmth, lol. It'd still be very light out if it was July. The longer darkness seems out of touch with the current temperature/humidity though, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I just found the CWOP analysis page and looked over some MADIS data. Looks like my local PWS runs a bit too cool during the daytime, haha. Since it was the discussion today, I looked at DW5935 for MPM's station analysis. Maybe you can help me interpret these graphs as I'm in over my head at this point: Here's the nighttime graph with DW5935 being the darker circle: Nighttime_MPM.png And here is the daytime graph with DW5935 on the right side border. Daytime_MPM.png What is this telling us? lol, I have no idea. MADIS isn't perfect...it's a good first step though. If there are stations factored in that are running too high it will think you should be warmer than you are...even if your temp is hypothetically perfect. We know there are some torchy afternoon PWSs out there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman21 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Full on Key West style evening on tap. The earlier sunset these days gives us more evening hours of darkness to enjoy the warmth, lol. It'd still be very light out if it was July. The longer darkness seems out of touch with the current temperature/humidity though, lol. You should visit Texas. It's weird watching the 10 PM news and they show the temperature map and everyone is still 96-99 degrees and the weatherman says it likes it no big deal. Plus the days there are shorter than ours in the summer, so it adds to the oddity of being out in pitch darkness at say 9 at night and 100 degree heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman21 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Shelbourne is indeed one magical place if he can be the same temp at a site 1100' feet higher than his (Windsor) and 3 degrees cooler than Peru at 1800', Ginxy's thoughts notwithstanding. I'd like to see how it does compared to co-op sites which use standard equipment and are sited in a similar fashion, i.e. not at an airport, and presumably in areas closer to vegetation and other obstructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I just found the CWOP analysis page and looked over some MADIS data. Looks like my local PWS runs a bit too cool during the daytime, haha. Since it was the discussion today, I looked at DW5935 for MPM's station analysis. Maybe you can help me interpret these graphs as I'm in over my head at this point: Here's the nighttime graph with DW5935 being the darker circle: Nighttime_MPM.png And here is the daytime graph with DW5935 on the right side border. Daytime_MPM.png What is this telling us? lol, I have no idea. He is basically in his own world with his daytime "error". Very few sites manage to pull off being 3.5F+ cooler than the analysis temp. His actually appears to be the most extreme on that image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 MADIS isn't perfect...it's a good first step though. If there are stations factored in that are running too high it will think you should be warmer than you are...even if your temp is hypothetically perfect. We know there are some torchy afternoon PWSs out there too. It finds ORE 1.8F too cold, while thinking the spot in Peru, MA at 1,900ft runs 3.9F too warm (would make sense as it hit 90F today)...fun kickin' around that site. What's cool is if you take the different stations, and add in the MADIS departures, it all seems to make sense relative to elevation. It may be a degree or so off, but overall, it fits in a more unified level. The problem is, where people live is more variable than that. You have different aspects, shade amounts, vegetation density, sun angle issues, construction, etc so its not as cut and dry. I get that. But its fun to use the available data to try and come up with a temperature profile on a more unified level. Thermodynamics can be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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