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Feb 25-26 Discussion/pbp


Wow

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I had the same question - ours reads 2 - 4 for Wednesday and then 2 - 4 for Wednesday night... SERIOUSLY?

Even better - nothing "supposed" to start until 10:00 am - really not feeling sending the kids to school with 4 - 8" of snow possible... this place shuts down with 1/2" of snow... :|

Really wish the schools would just bite the bullet and close proactively tomorrow. It's not like we've got a high risk of additional snow days after this event is over.

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See, this is what I'm referring to. Seems to be a shift from the thinking earlier today, at least from what the models are generally showing. Sounding like a rain event turning to a sloppy snow event for a shorter duration before ending.

This was evident even yesterday with the thickness values being above 540 in some models. For example, the 540 lines is not even in NC at the height of the storm according to the NAM. My 5-7 snow accumulation was if it was all snow, but that is clearly not going to happen. Should have stuck with my inch or two forecast from 2 days ago lol

 

cld33.gif

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Just a heads up...the RPM model is usually horrible, it's just a marketing tool and I believe it just runs off the Hi-Res NAM with a few tweaks...those tweaks tend to make it bad. I would guess it is seeing the thickness the NAM is and not properly accounting for cooling. Either way moisture moves in by 7pm if by 10pm we're turning to snow we might loose an inch. I'm not worried. This is the best look we've had in a long time. There will be surprises, winners and losers. We won't know until it starts falling. If GA overperforms early then it's going to be good for us. 

Something that I always look at are recent trends. The last few storms have trended wetter and SFC temps have been cooler than models predicted even 24 hours out due to the cold air hanging around longer. That has to account for something here. I doubt many of us break 40 tomorrow. Just a non scientific guess. 

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Actually at 5pm yesterday they said that there would be an 80% chance that RDU would get at least 1" of snow.  I'd say that's pretty spot on given that this was a dry snow w/ high ratios.

 

I missed the 5pm news but caught the 5:30 and 6:00pm and thought they were very vague.  The call was for up to a trace but they cautioned if the track was more north it could be more and to watch Jennifer Gardner this morning for up to date information.

 

As far as whatever their call is for Thursday, I don't care.  If they think it'll be mostly rain w/ a transition to snow at the end, that's fine w/ me.  I've looked at the models myself and think something else.  That's the good thing about the weather...The question will be answered.  So until then, I wish everyone luck on their forecast.

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Watch up:

 

NCZ007>011-024>028-040>043-076-077-251030-
/O.NEW.KRAH.WS.A.0004.150225T2300Z-150226T1700Z/
/O.EXT.KRAH.WW.Y.0006.000000T0000Z-150225T1700Z/
PERSON-GRANVILLE-VANCE-WARREN-HALIFAX-ORANGE-DURHAM-FRANKLIN-NASH-
EDGECOMBE-CHATHAM-WAKE-JOHNSTON-WILSON-LEE-HARNETT-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...ROXBORO...OXFORD...BUTNER...CREEDMOOR...
HENDERSON...NORLINA...WARRENTON...ROANOKE RAPIDS...CHAPEL HILL...
CARRBORO...DURHAM...LOUISBURG...FRANKLINTON...NASHVILLE...
RED OAK...SHARPSBURG...SPRING HOPE...ROCKY MOUNT...SILER CITY...
PITTSBORO...RALEIGH...CARY...SMITHFIELD...CLAYTON...SELMA...
BENSON...WILSON...SANFORD...DUNN...ERWIN...ANGIER...LILLINGTON
438 PM EST TUE FEB 24 2015

...WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY NOW IN EFFECT UNTIL NOON EST
WEDNESDAY...
...WINTER STORM WATCH IN EFFECT FROM WEDNESDAY EVENING THROUGH
THURSDAY MORNING...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN RALEIGH HAS ISSUED A WINTER
WEATHER ADVISORY FOR BLACK ICE...WHICH IS IN EFFECT UNTIL NOON EST
WEDNESDAY. A WINTER STORM WATCH IS NOW IN EFFECT FROM WEDNESDAY
EVENING THROUGH THURSDAY MORNING.

* LOCATIONS...TRIANGLE...NORTHERN PIEDMONT...AND NORTHERN COASTAL
  PLAIN.

* HAZARD TYPES...FREEZING OF RESIDUAL SNOW ON AREA ROADS WILL
  RESULT IN DANGEROUS TRAVEL CONDITIONS TONIGHT. ADDITIONALLY...
  THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR SIGNIFICANT SNOW ACCUMULATION WEDNESDAY
  NIGHT THROUGH THURSDAY MORNING.

* ACCUMULATIONS...POTENTIAL FOR 3 TO 6 INCHES OF SNOW ACCUMULATION
  WEDNESDAY NIGHT THROUGH THURSDAY MORNING. LOCALLY HEAVIER
  AMOUNTS WILL BE POSSIBLE.

* IMPACTS...DANGEROUS TRAVEL CONDITIONS ASSOCIATED WITH BLACK ICE
  ON AREA ROADS THIS AFTERNOON THROUGH NOON WEDNESDAY AND AGAIN
  WITH ACCUMULATING SNOW WEDNESDAY NIGHT INTO THURSDAY.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY MEANS THAT WINTRY PRECIPITATION WILL
RESULT IN HAZARDOUS TRAVEL CONDITIONS. AVOID TRAVEL IF POSSIBLE.
IF YOU MUST TRAVEL...SLOW DOWN...LEAVE PLENTY OF FOLLOWING
DISTANCE AND EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTION...PARTICULARLY AT
INTERSECTIONS AND HIGHWAY ONRAMPS AND OFFRAMPS WHERE ACCIDENTS ARE
MOST LIKELY.

A WINTER STORM WATCH MEANS THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR SIGNIFICANT
SNOW...SLEET...OR ICE ACCUMULATION. STAY TUNED TO LATER
FORECASTS AND PREPARE FOR SEVERE IMPACTS ASSOCIATED WITH HEAVY
SNOW ACCUMULATION.

$$

VINCENT/JB
 

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I'm not calling bs on their forecast either just wondering what they see vs all the discussion and some really good intel on this forum, some from solid mets.  Is that in-house model some holy grail of magical forecasting?

Some TV Mets seem to hang their hat on it. Its in the same ballpark as look at us, we have the best superduper doppler 9000 around. 

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That is what I said earlier this morning and got blasted for it. I think we see more rain than anything in Wake County.

This one has bust written all over it. Probably why NWS is hesitant to issue a WSWatch. and may retract it tomorrow.

You and your homeboy Fishel need to go pitch a tent together Wed night and take your little umbrellas with you too.

Seriously, I can't believe you'd listen to anything out of that clowns mouth, he's about as bad as DT but on the other side of the fence. WRAL should be sued for public endangerment, what a joke that station is.

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18Z RGEM really upping the precip amts back toward C TN/N AL as the comma head develops. Good sign there that the s/w is holding tight with a cutoff ull longer.

 

The better this develops, the farther west the heavier precip will build back as it moves up.

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I suppose the mets on WRAL are hugging their in-house model. Seems kind of odd, given that their model is vastly different than all the others. No others show rain being an issue in RDU.

 

Edit: I'm a big fan of Fishel, though, so I'm not automatically dismissing him. But I have to say I'm baffled at their stance on this.

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18Z RGEM really upping the precip amts back toward C TN/N AL as the comma head develops. Good sign there that the s/w is holding tight with a cutoff ull longer.

The better this develops, the farther west the precip will build back as it moves up.

I don't have it yet, does it close off or no?
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Warning up here...

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGENATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PEACHTREE CITY GA333 PM EST TUE FEB 24 2015...WINTER STORM WARNING NOW IN EFFECT FROM 10 AM WEDNESDAYTHROUGH 10 AM THURSDAY...GAZ001>009-011>016-019>025-027-030>038-041>049-052>055-057-250645-/O.UPG.KFFC.WS.A.0003.150225T1500Z-150226T1200Z//O.NEW.KFFC.WS.W.0004.150225T1500Z-150226T1500Z/DADE-WALKER-CATOOSA-WHITFIELD-MURRAY-FANNIN-GILMER-UNION-TOWNS-CHATTOOGA-GORDON-PICKENS-DAWSON-LUMPKIN-WHITE-FLOYD-BARTOW-CHEROKEE-FORSYTH-HALL-BANKS-JACKSON-MADISON-POLK-PAULDING-COBB-NORTH FULTON-GWINNETT-BARROW-CLARKE-OCONEE-OGLETHORPE-HARALSON-CARROLL-DOUGLAS-SOUTH FULTON-DEKALB-ROCKDALE-WALTON-NEWTON-MORGAN-HEARD-COWETA-FAYETTE-CLAYTON-HENRY-INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...CALHOUN...DAHLONEGA...CLEVELAND...ROME...CARTERSVILLE...GAINESVILLE...MARIETTA...ATLANTA...LAWRENCEVILLE...ATHENS...CARROLLTON...DOUGLASVILLE...EAST POINT...DECATUR...CONYERS...COVINGTON...NEWNAN...PEACHTREE CITY333 PM EST TUE FEB 24 2015...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 10 AM WEDNESDAY TO 10 AMEST THURSDAY...THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN PEACHTREE CITY HAS ISSUED AWINTER STORM WARNING WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 10 AM WEDNESDAY TO10 AM EST THURSDAY. THE WINTER STORM WATCH IS NO LONGER IN EFFECT.* LOCATIONS...ALONG AND NORTH OF A LINE FROM NEWNAN TO COVINGTON  TO ATHENS.* HAZARD TYPES...SNOW POSSIBLY MIXING WITH RAIN AT TIMES.* ACCUMULATIONS...2 TO 4 INCHES WITH UP TO 6 INCHES IN THE  MOUNTAINS OF NORTH AND NORTHEAST GEORGIA. LOWER AMOUNTS OF 1 TO  2 INCHES ARE POSSIBLE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE ATLANTA METRO  AREA AND ALONG THE SOUTHERN FRINGE OF THE WARNING AREA.* TIMING...10 AM WEDNESDAY THROUGH 10 AM THURSDAY.* IMPACTS...ACCUMULATIONS OF SNOW ALONG WITH NEAR OR BELOW  FREEZING TEMPERATURES WILL RESULT IN SLICK ROADWAYS AND MAKE  TRAVEL HAZARDOUS.* VISIBILITIES...VISIBILITIES WILL BE GREATLY REDUCED DURING SOME  OF THE EXPECTED HEAVIER SNOW RATES DURING THE AFTERNOON AND  EVENING.* TEMPERATURES...TEMPERATURES ARE EXPECTED TO REMAIN STEADY OR  FALL THROUGH THE DAY TO NEAR FREEZING AS SNOWFALL RATES  INCREASE. TEMPERATURES ARE EXPECTED TO REMAIN STEADY NEAR OR  BELOW FREEZING THROUGH THE OVERNIGHT HOURS INTO THURSDAY  MORNING.
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I don't get the obsession w/ the sref. It's an ensemble of NAM members. Everyone know's how extreme the NAM and other various hi-res sr models can be.  One member showing wound up SLP will throw off the entire precip type forecast mean. Therefore these snow avgs are highly unreliable on it.

 

Good point.

 

I always throw out the high extremes and let the mean readjust to get a more reasonable comfort level with what will likely occur.

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Gradient is going to set up over I-20 in the ATL metro.. County on big numbers north side of the metro, little to nothing on the south side.

 

At quick glance it appears the RGEM is slightly south with the snow gradient there this run, it may not be as tight but it appears to show more oranges during the afternoon and further south with the snow in the evening

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I suppose the mets on WRAL are hugging their in-house model. Seems kind of odd, given that their model is vastly different than all the others. No others show rain being an issue in RDU.

 

It's marketing 101. In a crowded field you differentiate yourself somehow. The RPM  "in house model" is an easy way to do that. So they run with it...if it works they can tout their accuracy. If it isn't they just say "new information is coming in right now". Either way it's not a big deal for them. During these storms their ratings spike and that's all they care about.....by the way not saying the mets their lead this charge it's just most news orgs in general. I would imagine for a lot of TV mets ego probably plays a role so some might gamble on a more extreme scenario.  

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They just went with 2-4" for me Wed night on top of 1-3" Wed afternoon. Interesting that their WSW has metro ATL as 2-4" and that was posted about the same time. Looks like a much higher top end potential in the point forecast.

 

I think we also established that we reside fairly close to one another; but you're area is clearly on a different grid for FFC.  Interesting indeed.

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