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[NorthShoreWx]

I have only one 20ish year old White Birch on my property and it's surrounded by Red and Sugar Maples:

Thats a nice tree. I wish we had some.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Google Earth had me at 1068' (which was in my avatar for a while), the new site has me at 1063'

(it actually has my house in the wrong spot by quite a bit, so I fixed that)

A topo map of my area has be close to the 1100' contour, so I think the mid to upper 1000' would be right

Using a GPS thingy on the phone, as I walk around my neighborhood, we get up to 1130 or so before back down to the "valley" where I am.

About a half mile away is a ridge at 1250' or so. I think they steal a little of my snow

[ChrisM]

I saw almost 12" of paste in Feb 2010 while down at 400-500 feet saw 4-5" of total slop. They were right down the road....so it definitely does happen.

However, those types of events of that magnitude only happen once every 5+ years or so. The last big paste bomb before that was probably January 2-3, 2006.

I had 22" or so in Octobomb and down in town a mile away at 600 feet or whatever they only had 14"

[Sugarloaf1989]

These are my Mt Laurel. They are a bit hard to see surrounded by other greenery, but they are about 12' tall and I have a stand of three of them:

[CapturedNature]

I think this has been discussed before, but I do think there is a different between the top of an isolated 800' hill and an 800' elevation surrounded by 1000' hills. In strict elevation events you can tell a difference as you climb but in some marginal events I've seen where just a few hundred feet can make a world of difference. That might explain why a place in RI or other places in NE CT can do well.

My area is a good example where in an elevation event I'll still get a few inches but hills at a similar elevation south of me do not. I'm surrounded by 1-1,200' hills and the area to my east is solidly above 1,000'

[Damage In Tolland]

Google Earth had me at 1068' (which was in my avatar for a while), the new site has me at 1063'

(it actually has my house in the wrong spot by quite a bit, so I fixed that)

A topo map of my area has be close to the 1100' contour, so I think the mid to upper 1000' would be right

Using a GPS thingy on the phone, as I walk around my neighborhood, we get up to 1130 or so before back down to the "valley" where I am.

About a half mile away is a ridge at 1250' or so. I think they steal a little of my snow

That must be why you radiate so well. A little elevated valley

[mreaves]

BTV was the best non-upslope station I had there so I used it. "Nearby" for ORH meant other places like Ashburnham or Princeton....we could even use Ray's area too...he usually is not that far off from my snowfall...averaging a bit less, but he does beat my area on occasion.

BDL would rarely beat a NNE location, though it does happen. Probably like once every 25-30 years though.

I looked at Montpeliar's snow data...they aren't an upslope spot (excpet maybe some rotting stuff like Pete's area in the Berks might get). Their snow data shuts off though after 1996. But prior to that from about 1950-1996, I came up with these seasons for ORH finishing with more snow than MPV:

1986-1987

1982-1983

1966-1967

1964-1965

1960-1961

1956-1957

So about 6 out of 45 years which is about once per 7-8 years.

Montpelier was a tough place to get more snow than because their average was 96.4"...that is a very high average snowfall.

[weatherMA]

I saw almost 12" of paste in Feb 2010 while down at 400-500 feet saw 4-5" of total slop. They were right down the road....so it definitely does happen.

However, those types of events of that magnitude only happen once every 5+ years or so. The last big paste bomb before that was probably January 2-3, 2006.

That storm and the OCT bomb made me hate where I live...except for in the OCT storm...I couldn't complain with only 9-10" while surrounding areas saw 14-18" because well, it was October.

[HoarfrostHubb]

That must be why you radiate so well. A little elevated valley

"Valley" might be a stretch, but I do sit lower than some of my neighbors. Between my house and that ridge, it drops down a bit to a beaver pond (probably 980' or so). That probably radiates ok.

Sand-pits nearby as well. Those do well A friend of mine on the other side of town has a house around 1300' I think

[powderfreak]

I saw almost 12" of paste in Feb 2010 while down at 400-500 feet saw 4-5" of total slop. They were right down the road....so it definitely does happen.

However, those types of events of that magnitude only happen once every 5+ years or so. The last big paste bomb before that was probably January 2-3, 2006.

Feb 2010 might be the event I'm thinking of, but I remember an event where you were posting photos of your deck getting blasted, while Tip in Ayer is writing war and peace novels about cosmic dildos as it's pouring rain at his house at 250ft.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Feb 2010 might be the event I'm thinking of, but I remember an event where you were posting photos of your deck getting blasted, while Tip in Ayer is writing war and peace novels about cosmic dildos as it's pouring rain at his house at 250ft.

He is good for at least one of those a year

[ORH_wxman]

Feb 2010 might be the event I'm thinking of, but I remember an event where you were posting photos of your deck getting blasted, while Tip in Ayer is writing war and peace novels about cosmic dildos as it's pouring rain at his house at 250ft.

Same event...that was the one where Ginx (now Sultan) took all my deck photos and made a time loop of them...I had posted the photos almost an hour apart on all of them trying to get a good 1 hour snowfall measurement each time.

There's been numerous smaller events where I'll get 3" of branch-clinging paste while down in Tip's area they will have a slushy 1" coating...but those can sometimes get offset by those events where he gets 5" from a little "nuke as I exit stage-right" type clipper and I get 2 or 3".

[powderfreak]

Montpelier was a tough place to get more snow than because their average was 96.4"...that is a very high average snowfall.

Yeah once out of the Champlain Valley it would be tougher because averages seem universally higher from the upslope areas east.

South Lincoln co-op shows 124" average down near Sugarbush/MRG area, Waitsfield in RT 100 corridor shows 116"...those are south of I89 in the Greens, so Stowe (also in RT 100 corridor along Greens) is likely in that ballpark but with a bit more given it's another 1.5 counties north in latitude and it's well documented that north of 89 in the Greens gets more upslope because of no blocking by Adirondack peaks.

That also matches with MPV getting 96"...we probably average another 2 feet of fluff or so in like 1-2" increments or from the 1-3 larger upslope storms we get per year (like last Feb 25th's 18" following the synoptic storm).

MPV area though retains snow better...Allensons spot retains it the best though closer to the NH border but at 1300ft.

[CoastalWx]

Even around here at 200', I've seen 1-2" of slop near sea level only to have 4-5" of accumulating snow on the top of a hill. Best example, beginning of 3/31/97. Didn't think 200' could mean the world until that aftn.

[HoarfrostHubb]

One good area for seeing elevation enhancing snowfall is out in Arlington, MA, where Rte 2 climbs. That can be a fun drive as it changes over...lol

[CoastalWx]

One good area for seeing elevation enhancing snowfall is out in Arlington, MA, where Rte 2 climbs. That can be a fun drive as it changes over...lol

The hills from near Peabody MA and points WSW to Arlington are also a climo spot for coastal fronts.

[ORH_wxman]

One good area for seeing elevation enhancing snowfall is out in Arlington, MA, where Rte 2 climbs. That can be a fun drive as it changes over...lol

Best spot around our area to see drastic changes is climbing from Fitchburg/Leominster at 300-400 feet down at the lowets points there up to 1400 feet on Weenie ridge just about 4-5 miles the way the crow flies. Unbelievable differences.

I also think that spot gets some slight cooling from upslope...as it is most apparent in ZR events.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Yeah, that stretch is notorious. There have been several white knuckle commutes home as the el climbs. I will sometimes get off in Westminster because it avoids the final altitude adjustment

[CoastalWx]

Yeah, that stretch is notorious. There have been several white knuckle commutes home as the el climbs. I will sometimes get off in Westminster because it avoids the final altitude adjustment

Now that I wouldn't mind. Once in a while, I think about 1500'.

[ctsnowstorm628]

1,010ft at LSC.

213ft at home.

Seems a bit high at home to me (various GPS/google earth is ~195-200ft).

[tamarack]

The views from Cadillac Mtn are simply awesome, Especially at sunrise, Its is the 1st place in the CONUS that the sun hits

Only at certain times of the year. I've read several articles on this, perhaps the most thorough in Yankee Magazine about 25 years ago. They used view-circles based on elevation and the Earth's curvature and postulated 5 different "1st places" depending on the direction from which the sun broke the horizon. For the weeks either side of the summer solstice it was Mars Hill in Aroostook, most of the winter solstice vicinity was Cadillac, though on the solstice itself they said ACK might sneak ahead. then there were a few days each spring and fall for Katahdin and West Qouddy Head; MWN was shut out.

Also, I don't think Cadillac reaps all the orographic snow one might think, because it has significant ocean on 3 sides and because it's far enough east that lots of good storms for the rest of Maine are mixing there. Cool Spruce's best snow pics tended to be at his home in Ellsworth, 20 miles to the north of Cadillac (and there's no one from the board whom I miss more.)

Based on Tamarck's post my climate is similar to Jaffrey, NH

I think you added where you should've subtracted. Jaffrey's elev runs 1,000' to maybe 1,500' (where people live.)

On elevational paste vs snow, in my area the late Feb storm of 2010 is the best example. Farmington at 420' recorded 8.8". Five miles NW and less than 250' higher, the cocorahs observer in Temple recorded 26.4", exactly 3 times as much.

[powderfreak]

One good area for seeing elevation enhancing snowfall is out in Arlington, MA, where Rte 2 climbs. That can be a fun drive as it changes over...lol

I lived with a girlfriend for a stint in Topsfield, MA and still remember a storm back in like 2005 or 2006 in January when I was driving to visit my folks in ALB, and there was no snow accumulating south on 95 to the Mass Pike, but

then it started sticking not long after heading west on the Pike. I then remember climbing a hill at like either the Natick or Westborough rest stops and snowfall went through the roof (like 6-8") in a matter of a couple hundred feet. It then dumped through the Charlton rest area and tapered off around Ludlow near Springfield. Lastly the most snow on the trip was out near the Blanford rest stop in the Berks, but I still remember going "wow" near Natick or Westborough....it might have been coastal front induced (not elevation?) but it was snowing cake stuck to everything in like a matter of a mile from a rain/snow mix.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Iirc the Pike only climbs a couple of hundred feet around there

Neat!

[wxmanmitch]

With respect to biodiversity I have noticed that here and in elevations between 750-1,300' in Northeastern Connecticut there are stands of White Birch and Mt Laurel that do not exist in any great amounts as one travels south.

Mountain Laurel are very common around here. White birch, extremely rare (assuming you mean Paper or Yellow birch)...but we've got white barked "old field" birch and millions of sweet birch (which is closely related to yellow birch).

I am referring to white paper birch, which I know do not grow naturally on Long Island as I lived there for most of my life.

Where I grew up in NNJ, mountain laurel was quite common, especially on the glacier-scoured hilltops at 800-900', but also in some 600' valleys. White birch, however, was found only where it had been planted as an ornamental. Our "white birch" was actually gray birch.

I have read that every 1,000' gain in altitude is the equivalent of moving 250 miles north climate wise, is this true?

In my forest ecology class (dated - it was in 1974), the ratio offered was 400' elevation = 1 degree latitude, about 70 miles. That would make 175 miles per 1,000' elev. My less-than-scientific observations would produce a figure a bit lower than that. I also expect that ratio to work best in the mid latitudes.

Google Earth puts my elevation at 397', right in our driveway. This newer product, using the 4-decimal lat-lon from G-E, puts it at 404' but also locates it across the road from the house, which spot just happens to be 6-8' higher than the driveway. Of course, the 7.5 minute quad has my place at about 385', close to the 380' contour and relatively far from the 400' line. (My 80 acre woodlot holds less than 40' of relief, though the hill just to the north climbs about 150' in 1/4 mile.)

Given all the evidence, I'll go with the 397'.

ORH's comment about holding snow is right on. My commute takes me over a hill at 800' or a bit higher. The aspect (E/NE) probably offers a bit of orographic advantage in synoptic snows, but the easily observable differences occur on events at marginal temps, and I'd guess there's 10" or less additional snowfall there compared to the 87" avg at my place. However, it typically holds snow 7-10 days later than at my snowstake.

Our white paper birch are found here at the highest of elevations in Northeastern Connecticut. They are my favorite tree and stick out like a sore thumb amongst the stands of maple/oak. I feel lucky to have but one growing on my property.

Betula Papyrifera is a rare "relict" tree on LI. There are reliable records of native trees existing at various places on the island including Mill Neck, Coram, Wading River, Wyandanch, Greenport and Noyack. The last three were from a 1972 survey, so don't ask me if they still exist.

They are very rare and I personally have not seen one on my hikes, but they do grow here naturally,

As I'm a bit of a tree geek myself, I found this to be interesting conversation.

As a pioneer species, white (paper) birch typically is one of the first trees to grow in a new forest. They're fast growing and require ample sunlight. Since most of the woodlands around SNE are now becoming older, I don't think white birch is as abundant as it used to be. SNE is also near the southern most point of their range.

A lot of the white birches in the woods around here are older and not too healthy. As the woodlands are generally thick with sugar maple, white ash, red maple, beech, and red oak, there are very few younger white birch trees. There are a lot more young yellow and sweet birch trees, but not white birch for whatever reason.

Here is an image of the woodlands around here and how the paper birches typically appear:

What's weird about the tree species around here is that there seems to be a rather dramatic demarcation line between the typical SNE coastal forests and the NNE acadian forests that you normally find around here. You go from a forest dominated by various oak species (white, black, scarlet, and red), hickory, and red maple to one dominated by sugar maples, aspen, beech, birches (white, yellow, and sweet) and white ash within a matter of about 5 miles. It seems like the transition starts around 500-600' and is complete by 1200-1300'. While there are exceptions and overlap (especially with regard to white ash and red oak), the transition is rather sudden. Above about 1600' you start getting some northern boreal species like black and red spruce thrown into the mix and the red oaks begin to thin out.

There is a renegade population of tulip poplars in the Stockbridge, Great Barrington area. I have no idea how they got there since they pretty much stop in SW CT. Perhaps they were introduced and then naturalized, but these trees look like they grew naturally. There are also some isolated populations of white oak around here too, but we're much closer to their natural range than tulip poplar.

[Damage In Tolland]

Best difference around here is I-84 from Vernon which is around 200 feet..As soon as yo see the Tolland sign it starts climbing up the hill and you typically go rain/rain snow mix to snow halfway up the hill to accumulating snow at the top of that hill which is right around or just under 900 feet. From there on it's hvy hvy winter

[CoastalWx]

As I'm a bit of a tree geek myself, I found this to be interesting conversation.

As a pioneer species, white (paper) birch typically is one of the first trees to grow in a new forest. They're fast growing and require ample sunlight. Since most of the woodlands around SNE are now becoming older, I don't think white birch is as abundant as it used to be. SNE is also near the southern most point of their range.

A lot of the white birches in the woods around here are older and not too healthy. As the woodlands are generally thick with sugar maple, white ash, red maple, beech, and red oak, there are very few younger white birch trees. There are a lot more young yellow and sweet birch trees, but not white birch for whatever reason.

Here is an image of the woodlands around here and how the paper birches typically appear:

What's weird about the tree species around here is that there seems to be a rather dramatic demarcation line between the typical SNE coastal forests and the NNE acadian forests that you normally find around here. You go from a forest dominated by various oak species (white, black, scarlet, and red), hickory, and red maple to one dominated by sugar maples, aspen, beech, birches (white, yellow, and sweet) and white ash within a matter of about 5 miles. It seems like the transition starts around 500-600' and is complete by 1200-1300'. While there are exceptions and overlap (especially with regard to white ash and red oak), the transition is rather sudden. Above about 1600' you start getting some northern boreal species like black and red spruce thrown into the mix and the red oaks begin to thin out.

There is a renegade population of tulip poplars in the Stockbridge, Great Barrington area. I have no idea how they got there since they pretty much stop in SW CT. Perhaps they were introduced and then naturalized, but these trees look like they grew naturally. There are also some isolated populations of white oak around here too, but we're much closer to their natural range than tulip poplar.

I'm always fascinated by the tree species up in NH too. I love that spruce look....gives it a colder feel and also those beech and aspen too. We actually used to have a cedar grove in this area...some areas of cedar still around. Otherwise, some of the trees here I think date back to 1900 or perhaps earlier? Huge maples, and trees where I'm unsure of the species.

[Allenson]

This site puts me at 1237'. My GPS on the other hand has me a bit lower--right around 1200'.

Either way, I'm in that ballpark.

As for elevation and weather around here, there seem to be steps within the overall continuous gradient. I see changes frequently at around 800', again at a little over 1000', then the 1200-1500' range that I live in, another range from 1500-1800' and then above 1800' is the last step.

[Mr Torchey]

Site is high, I am 10ft ASL site put me at 16.

[HoarfrostHubb]

Anyone ever use Map My Run (or walk in my case). It will do el changes on a graph. Kinda fun

[mayjawintastawm]

I used to use mapmyrun, but waaaay too many ads now that crash my computer. I use Google Earth/maps/etc.

When we lived in Shrewsbury MA at 630' we often did much better than 3 miles west on the lake. The ice storm in 2008 left our neighborhood with 3/4" radial ice and hundreds of trees down, while just down the hill around 400' there was all rain. I called in to work in Worcester (9 minute drive) and they said "what do you mean you can't get in?"

Now that I live at 5670' the elevations are different but the effect is the same. We typically get 10-20% more snow than downtown Denver at 5300', and Parker (6000', 10 miles SE) gets 20% more than us.

PS- it rained >0.25" here today for the first time since July 7th. Snow over 13K. Yay!