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Winter 2019-20 Medium/Long Range Discussion


Hoosier
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2 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

I would say it's equal chances. The long range is nothing more than laughs, at least from an operational standpoint. Ensembles can be good for changes in patterns, but actual op runs are worthless. 

 

Speaking of ensembles, it does appear that much colder weather is on tap as we start the New Year. I've heard a couple people cite 2014-15, and I could certainly take a Winter like that.

The "people" have been wrong so far. So I wouldn't put too much stock into what they say.

However on the flip side, it does appear there is support for the potential of a more favorable pattern for cold/snow around or after the New Year. The GFS ENS are more gung-ho on this than the Euro ENS though.

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5 hours ago, DaveNay said:

Met's, please educate me.

Are long range (340 hr) forecasts of "nothing happening" more accurate than long range major storms? We have all seen the "clown maps" of insane forecasts at those ranges and know that they are likely to disappear. Does this mean that there is an equal chance of an event showing up out of nothing on models like we currently have?

Long range storms at least signify potential. When you are consistently showing nothing, the signal is for a pattern to produce nothing. It isn't just the GFS either, but the GEFS/EPS also are coming up with nothing through their runs.

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As you could probably figure out by the current/upcoming pattern, the Euro ENS were correct in handling/depicting a +EPO...while the GFS ENS failed horribly.

The bad news...If ENS have a good handle on things, that upcoming potential pattern change guidance was hinting at to end December and begin January might be in jeopardy. The Euro and GFS ENS are showing a continued +EPO continue right on into early January. On top of that, the Euro ENS also have a +AO/+NAO/neutral PNA set in as well. The GFS ENS are a bit more subdue overall, more similar to what we are seeing now.

Also of note, is that some of the GFS and Euro ENS have the MJO moving from the COD on into phase 6 for the late Dec/early Jan time-frame. If that were to happen, combined with the potential teleconnections in projected, and the fact the main PV will be up over the North Pole/Siberia...things *could* get even more torchy/snow-less...and that's saying something given how the past 5 weeks have been. 

Not saying that will happen... But the projected teleconnections alone should be a concern that an overall mild/snow-less pattern continues into at least early January.

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17 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

No thanks. Plenty of winter fun ahead. I am wondering if its a repeat of last winter in terms of false cold on the models to open January and the cold held off til mid January then winter was here (for the most part) from mid Jan to mid Mar.

Or it could be the models provide false cold till the end of January or early February. A question: At what point does delayed but not denied become too late. As in at some point nah just keep your 3 weeks of winter. What if it doesn't really come till late February  or early March. For me if this winter is still worthless by Jan.20th forget it. Laughable for how wet its been all year long for us to dry out as you head into  winter. ie Nov. Dec. well below normal precip. wise

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5 hours ago, Cary67 said:

Or it could be the models provide false cold till the end of January or early February. A question: At what point does delayed but not denied become too late. As in at some point nah just keep your 3 weeks of winter. What if it doesn't really come till late February  or early March. For me if this winter is still worthless by Jan.20th forget it. Laughable for how wet its been all year long for us to dry out as you head into  winter. ie Nov. Dec. well below normal precip. wise

November was almost 6° colder than avg and December to date is running less than 1° above avg. You are talking as if it's been a nonstop torch with no end in sight. To answer your question, Feb 1st if there's been no more cold and nothing in sight, then its time to give up on that. Snow wise, we literally have 4 more months of measurable snow potential and as we head towards the dead of winter even mild temps can yield good snow. Bottom line, barring torching, as we head into winter storminess is more of a concern than it being cold enough to snow 

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