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HoarfrostHubb

Spring 2019 New England Banter and Disco

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Didn't take long to remember how much i hated climbing up the roof to service my weather station, Had to take down my old one that half the sensors were no longer working and had been offline for two years to put up my new one, Glad its only an occasional climb up there, I'm not a fan of heights even when i was younger.
Roof pitch?

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On 5/18/2019 at 4:25 PM, tamarack said:

Hope he doesn't get the "Zucker" treatment - taught one year in SW NH, Monadnock country, and anticipated big snow.  It was 2011-12 and he saw less than he had the previous 2 seasons in the NY metro (where he's back to.)

Lol yeah...we only got 52" that winter in Rindge. Had 24" in the October bomb and 3" a few days before that. Only saw about 2 feet fall the entire winter at 1200' in the Monadnocks. 

Had 68" in 09-10 and 70" in 10-11 in Westchester.

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12 hours ago, nzucker said:

Lol yeah...we only got 52" that winter in Rindge. Had 24" in the October bomb and 3" a few days before that. Only saw about 2 feet fall the entire winter at 1200' in the Monadnocks. 

Had 68" in 09-10 and 70" in 10-11 in Westchester.

Reminds me of when we moved from NNJ to BGR on 1/23/73, anticipating big snowstorms.  Dec. 1972 remains their snowiest on record for that month so there was a good pack, but our 1st week in Maine was a thaw.  Had a nice 8" dump in late Jan, followed 2 days later by 50° RA that wiped it out completely, and winter was essentially done though we had a 3-day pastefest in late Feb, 9" total while never being more than 4" deep.  Then in 73-74 we failed to even approach a 6" storm until one on the equinox, and BGR was contenting for its least snowy winter on record until early April brought a 9" powder event.  Only in Dec '75 did we get a double digit wintry storm.  Moved to Ft. Kent on 1/1/76, and though we had over 90" in Jan-Feb-Mar there wasn't a storm larger than 8".  Not until 76-77 did we see "real" Maine snow.

Ironically, the best period for big storms I've experienced was in NJ.  From 3/56 thru 2/61 we had 7 storms in the 18-24" range; nothing I've seen/shoveled since then has approached that super-thump period.

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8 hours ago, tamarack said:

Reminds me of when we moved from NNJ to BGR on 1/23/73, anticipating big snowstorms.  Dec. 1972 remains their snowiest on record for that month so there was a good pack, but our 1st week in Maine was a thaw.  Had a nice 8" dump in late Jan, followed 2 days later by 50° RA that wiped it out completely, and winter was essentially done though we had a 3-day pastefest in late Feb, 9" total while never being more than 4" deep.  Then in 73-74 we failed to even approach a 6" storm until one on the equinox, and BGR was contenting for its least snowy winter on record until early April brought a 9" powder event.  Only in Dec '75 did we get a double digit wintry storm.  Moved to Ft. Kent on 1/1/76, and though we had over 90" in Jan-Feb-Mar there wasn't a storm larger than 8".  Not until 76-77 did we see "real" Maine snow.

Ironically, the best period for big storms I've experienced was in NJ.  From 3/56 thru 2/61 we had 7 storms in the 18-24" range; nothing I've seen/shoveled since then has approached that super-thump period.

The winter of 60-61 was the snowiest in Dobbs Ferry history with 90". All three major snowstorms were 15"+ there, and the town had 10 straight nights in the single digits. 

March 1960 was 32" in Dobbs Ferry.

Jealous you experienced 76-77 in northern Maine. The cold must have been amazing. What was your lowest max and min?

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14 hours ago, nzucker said:

The winter of 60-61 was the snowiest in Dobbs Ferry history with 90". All three major snowstorms were 15"+ there, and the town had 10 straight nights in the single digits. 

March 1960 was 32" in Dobbs Ferry.

Jealous you experienced 76-77 in northern Maine. The cold must have been amazing. What was your lowest max and min?

76-77 was the snowiest of the 9 full winters there, with 186.7", but not the coldest, as it bottomed out at -35.  Coldest afternoon that season came in early Dec at -12 but was spoiled by the -5 at obs time the previous evening.  While in Ft. Kent I recorded 4 mornings in the -40s, all when we lived in town, -41 just 11 days after we moved up on New Year's day 1976, -42 and -47 on Jan 12 & 17, 1979, and -42 on Dec 22, 1980.  Also had a -39 on Jan 11, 1979, so that month had 3 of the 5 coldest mornings, and ironically, the only 5 Jan days with above freezing minima.  Once we moved to the back settlement about 450' higher, we lost the radiational cooling advantage - lowest in 4 winters there was -34 while folks reached -47 by the river in Jan 1984.  Coldest wind chill was in the back settlement on Jan 18, 1982.  That morning it was -34 with sustained winds to 30 mph and gusts over 40, WCI -101 on the old scale but a wimpy -72 on the new.  Got up to -14 for the max, 2nd coldest behind the -20/-34 on Jan 4, 1981.  (CAR's max that day was -16, also their coldest.  HUL recorded -16/-41 for the coldest mean I've seen from a non-mountain NNE co-op.)

The 7 giants of 1956-61:
24.0    3/18-19/56   My dad measured 23.5" in the front yard and it was still accumulating.
18.0"   2/15-16/58   Cold powder
24.0"  3/21-22/58   Paste bomb at 31-32°
18.0"  3/3-4/60    1st mid-teens snow I can recall (2/58 may also fit)   8" new as we boarded the bus at noon for early release.
18.0"  12/11-12/60   Low teens snow, winding down as we headed into the woods for NJ firearms deer season opener.  (Dad got nice buck, kept clean hands as he taught me how to field dress it.)
20.0"  1/19-20/61   "JFK inaugural storm"   Most came with temps about 10°  Started NYC's longest run of <32 maxima, 16 days ending with the 34 max on 2/4.
24.0" (conservatively, wicked hard to measure)  2/3-4/61   Milder, mid-upper 20s, but howling winds, NYC's strongest recorded in Feb.  Pack depth 42-45", over 50" to our NW.

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Biggest difference fozz will see is more "snow on snow" events. His old stomping grounds in NE MD was pretty good for big storms. Plenty of 12"+ storms there and of course some 20"+ storms.

But they don't get a lot of moderate events in between with snow on the ground. N RI will have a lot more events where snow falls on top of existing snowpack. So if you are into the "winter appeal" aspect, then it's a positive change. 

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Now this is some May.  

Just north of the town of Crested Butte, CO... looks to be just up the road past the base of the ski resort when you plot the coordinates.

41" of snow this month with a depth over 30" still on May 23rd :lol: 

Whoever does this station is real diligent and got 380" of snow this winter with a max depth of 93".   

Thats like living at the Mount Mansfield Stake climate.

IMG_3266.PNG.312cc874076427d709c08eb8557a8ad1.PNG

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On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:47 PM, ORH_wxman said:

Biggest difference fozz will see is more "snow on snow" events. His old stomping grounds in NE MD was pretty good for big storms. Plenty of 12"+ storms there and of course some 20"+ storms.

But they don't get a lot of moderate events in between with snow on the ground. N RI will have a lot more events where snow falls on top of existing snowpack. So if you are into the "winter appeal" aspect, then it's a positive change. 

Even in NNJ, snow on snow wasn't all that common, and the base snow was usually a crummy crust by the time storm 2 came along - made for easy measuring, though.  Pow on pow was almost unknown (with the huge exception of Jan 19-Feb 4, 1961.)

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

Now this is some May.  

Just north of the town of Crested Butte, CO... looks to be just up the road past the base of the ski resort when you plot the coordinates.

41" of snow this month with a depth over 30" still on May 23rd :lol: 

Whoever does this station is real diligent and got 380" of snow this winter with a max depth of 93".   

Thats like living at the Mount Mansfield Stake climate.

IMG_3266.PNG.312cc874076427d709c08eb8557a8ad1.PNG

Snow down to mtns of San Diego. Quite the pattern out west.

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

Now this is some May.  

Just north of the town of Crested Butte, CO... looks to be just up the road past the base of the ski resort when you plot the coordinates.

41" of snow this month with a depth over 30" still on May 23rd :lol: 

Whoever does this station is real diligent and got 380" of snow this winter with a max depth of 93".   

Thats like living at the Mount Mansfield Stake climate.

IMG_3266.PNG.312cc874076427d709c08eb8557a8ad1.PNG

That area in SW CO can go gangbusters at times. I remember a couple years back, Crested Butte was the snowiest town in the country. January 2017 I think it was...they got something like 9 or 10 feet of snow in 2 weeks.

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9 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

That area in SW CO can go gangbusters at times. I remember a couple years back, Crested Butte was the snowiest town in the country. January 2017 I think it was...they got something like 9 or 10 feet of snow in 2 weeks.

The CoCoRAHS records are incredible out of there.  

Check out this period in early March.  

10 days, 6.90" water and 79.5" snow.  

Craziest thing is the depth compacting on itself.  See this on Mansfield a lot at the summit.  Towards the end there it snowed 8.5" with depth increase 2".  Then another 10.5" snow with depth only going up 2".  

IMG_3269.PNG.dc781ce67c963d5ca45fe345a81d6dd2.PNG

 

I was so interested as it's obscene to see the daily snow/water that goes into a 380" season.... this is the guy/site there, just up the road from Crested Butte resort entrance:

Looks like he's holding some sort of coring device and the snowboard he uses looks similar to what we put on Mansfield.  He's done twice daily obs since the 1970s when he came there as a ski bum...that's some JSpin level dedication.

IMG_3270.JPG.b3f855db84100e3f529ac7bf03f5a2f9.JPG

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On 5/17/2019 at 11:27 AM, Fozz said:

I'm about to start a new job in RI next week, so I'll soon be joining you guys here in this forum.

Welcome to the friendly confines of the SNE subforum 

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56 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

The CoCoRAHS records are incredible out of there.  

Check out this period in early March.  

10 days, 6.90" water and 79.5" snow.  

Craziest thing is the depth compacting on itself.  See this on Mansfield a lot at the summit.  Towards the end there it snowed 8.5" with depth increase 2".  Then another 10.5" snow with depth only going up 2".  

IMG_3269.PNG.dc781ce67c963d5ca45fe345a81d6dd2.PNG

 

I was so interested as it's obscene to see the daily snow/water that goes into a 380" season.... this is the guy/site there, just up the road from Crested Butte resort entrance:

Looks like he's holding some sort of coring device and the snowboard he uses looks similar to what we put on Mansfield.  He's done twice daily obs since the 1970s when he came there as a ski bum...that's some JSpin level dedication.

IMG_3270.JPG.b3f855db84100e3f529ac7bf03f5a2f9.JPG

Yeah that's awesome. I love pristine snow records from weenie sites like that.

 

I remember posting these two pics from that January 2017 dumping there...and these pics were before they got another 2 feet a day or two later.

 

011117_colorado_snow_002.jpg.17acb24d3be113981f6ba7188a2c7577.jpg011117_colorado_snow_012.jpg.e36712951c7821eb9c44728726fc3a01.jpg

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That's absolutely nuts.  Crested Butte is high enough that they get those heavy moist snowfalls when it's rain at 7-8000ft and below but then mix it in with the dry continental snows.  Though their snowpack in town seems more "man-snow" than high desert fluff you see elsewhere in Colorado/Utah/Wyoming/Montana.  They do get plenty of high ratio stuff I'm sure but there's just that "look" to it that means the snow has some body to it.

I guess their best snows would be SW/S/SE flow stuff given their position in the Rockies which is probably of the more moisture rich variety.  Northerly flow has to cross a lot of high terrain from Vail, Aspen, etc before getting to them.

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41 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah that's awesome. I love pristine snow records from weenie sites like that.

I'm glad I stumbled on this from his CoCoRAHS observations because people like this in true weenie snow sites are hard to come by.  Wish there were more of them.

If anyone really wants to waste some time like I have this morning... go down the rabbit hole and weather records of his at http://www.gothicwx.org/

The guy turned into a local legend and climate specialist because of how meticulous his records are.  I like his attitude about it, like how we argue on the forums about the best/proper snow measuring practices... "even if I did it wrong, I've done it wrong every single day for 44 years." 

"I recorded all this out of a personal interest in the weather. And because I’ve done it for so long, it has some benefit and some value. It wasn’t like I was some sort of forethinker, thinking ‘Oh, I’m going to write all this down and have absolutely no life whatsoever so I can stay here for 50 years,’ ” 

"Scientifically, my data are good because I had no goals, therefore no one can say ‘Well, you are just taking data to prove a point.’ It’s just numbers. I just wrote them down,” he says. “It’s the same person in the same location doing it in the same method, so even if I did it wrong, I did it wrong every single day for 44 years.”

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32 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

That's absolutely nuts.  Crested Butte is high enough that they get those heavy moist snowfalls when it's rain at 7-8000ft and below but then mix it in with the dry continental snows.  Though their snowpack in town seems more "man-snow" than high desert fluff you see elsewhere in Colorado/Utah/Wyoming/Montana.  They do get plenty of high ratio stuff I'm sure but there's just that "look" to it that means the snow has some body to it.

I guess their best snows would be SW/S/SE flow stuff given their position in the Rockies which is probably of the more moisture rich variety.  Northerly flow has to cross a lot of high terrain from Vail, Aspen, etc before getting to them.

Yeah the terrain is insane there....when I flew into Montrose on my Telluride trip in 2016, I noticed how ridiculous steep the wall was to the east...that's where Crested Butte was.....inside the mountains that created that monstrous wall....and Telluride was to the south, another monster wall of terrain. The upslope from some direction is crazy good and of course they can handle the moiste southwest flow deep-moisture at 500mb...events that turn 7,000 foot areas into rain as you said, but they are just getting smoked.

 

I marked all the areas with an X on the terrain map....

 

 

 

CrestedButte_terraine.png

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20 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

What's their seasonal total there now?  Snowbird has topped 700" now, which is a single-season record.

That guys site is at 380" but he's got a bunch of years over 500".  His 44-year record looks like 646.1" in 1994-95.  The .1 cracks me up...like after 600" you keep measuring to the tenth on an inch.

The bigger snow was further north this season than the Crested Butte area.  Even in California, Mammoth had 460" or something like that to Squaw's 715".  I think Jackson Hole also set their snowfall record this season.

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35 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

That guys site is at 380" but he's got a bunch of years over 500".  His 44-year record looks like 646.1" in 1994-95.  The .1 cracks me up...like after 600" you keep measuring to the tenth on an inch.

The bigger snow was further north this season than the Crested Butte area.  Even in California, Mammoth had 460" or something like that to Squaw's 715".  I think Jackson Hole also set their snowfall record this season.

Today's Mammoth report

  • BASE DEPTH RANGE

  • 90-155"
  • 90" 
     

Screenshot_20190524-140809_Chrome.jpg

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We had a big line of storms strengthen as they passed over the Cape and Islands this morning.  There could have been some reports of severe weather, like Hail and some wind with a lot of lightning, but it didn't wake me up at all.  Which is weird because thunder usually does wake me up at night.

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In other snow/mountain/weather news.... 

I follow the climbing season on Mt Everest.  They have a short window each May that is good for summiting.   Not as cold as winter and before  Monsoon season that brings big snows.  Because the mountain is 29,029 feet in elevation the jet stream winds are a big factor.  This year it sat over the mountain for much of the month so the window of good days was pretty minimal.  This week Wednesday and Thursday were in one of those windows.  I guess about 800 permits were issued and many people all at once tried for the summit creating a traffic jam.  Several people died because it took so long to get up and down the last leg.  Incredible picture of the traffic jam.  

Everest traffic jam.jpg

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Yeah Gene I saw that too.  Following a couple pro skiers trying to get to the summit and it sounds like the route is packed like a box store on Black Friday.  

That is terrifying.  Two died in that crowd from altitude sickness because they couldn't get to lower elevation quick enough.  You can't go anywhere on that knife ridge and the Hillary Step rock.  

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Just now, powderfreak said:

Yeah Gene I saw that too.  Following a couple pro skiers trying to get to the summit and it sounds like the route is packed like a box store on Black Friday.  

That is terrifying.  Two died in that crowd from altitude sickness because they couldn't get to lower elevation quick enough.  You can't go anywhere on that knife ridge and the Hillary Step rock.  

What a bunch of fools. Geezuz what a way to die, there is a reason the extreme adrenaline junkies don't last too long. 

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