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Met Winter Banter


dmillz25

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If you guys truly want a pattern flip, your best bet is going to be blocking developing somewhere along the line.  The problem, is that in a year like this, it's generally a better and safer assumption to assume later warming at the strat, later flip or weakening of the positive AO.  The Pacific is going to have a tough time delivering the goods with minimal Arctic air to work with.

 

 

Anyway, that's my contribution for the day.  Take it easy folks and have a lovely holiday season.

The seasonal progression of el nino, regardless of strength, is to retrograde the GOA low, and the PNA should become positive (constructive interference with el nino, as it is currently deconstructive), as it should in potent el nino events.

I would be comfortable with a -EPO/+PNA for starters.

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Okay? Whats wrong with snow from late Jan through March?

Nothing. I'm simply saying that we'll soon be getting snow since it's pretty much statistically improbable for their not to be snow in mid January.

 

Though I wouldn't exactly say Jan through March. Just because we get thunderstorms in September, doesn't mean that September is our peak severe weather month. Snow chances begin to diminish greatly by early March, and same goes for severe weather in September, so...

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Yes, normal anomalies at 850 can lead to slight aboves at the surface.  Especially with little in the way of appreciable snowcover (below normal snow cover, therefore more absorbed solar radiation at the surface due to bare ground having a lower albedo than snowcover).

 

I had opined earlier It looked like a week  ( day 11 -15 ) of plus 2 . Based off this as well 

gfs-ens_T2ma5d_us_3.png

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The reaction to the ensembles was a tad overdone IMO. Still shows a Scandinavian ridge and still rages the PNA albeit slightly less than prior runs. Cohen model still predicting two more SSWEs, the second of which disrupts the PV. Pattern change still on IMO much in the same way it evolved in 1957-58. Mid January as always advertised preceded by a return to near normal temps first week of Jan. PV displacement raises the chances of a blocky pattern which I agree we will need come February to achieve sustained cold outbreaks and snowfalls.

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Earlier, someone posted in one of the NYC threads that NYC's reported minimum temperature of 53° might be suspect.

 

As the last three 6-hour periods have shown a minimum figure that is exactly 2° below the listed hourly figures, I've e-mailed Upton out of an abundance of caution. Between hour figures might well have come out 2° below the shown hourly readings. Personally, I'm not yet sure there is an issue, but thought I'd send the matter to NWS just to be on the safe side.

 

NYCTemperatures.jpg

 

That was me. Thank you.

 

It's not like it's never faulty. It was faulty and they fixed it on Nov. 30.

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Yes, normal anomalies at 850 can lead to slight aboves at the surface.  Especially with little in the way of appreciable snowcover (below normal snow cover, therefore more absorbed solar radiation at the surface due to bare ground having a lower albedo than snowcover).

 

So plus 3 at 2M when sunny and dry  but cold enough to snow  N 850s are - 5 . 

Where can I sign . Small victory if the ensembles are right 

 

....

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You mean that guy that used to post here but then abandoned us?

 

I wouldn't single him out...the majority of the other mets that used to post here are gone.

 

They got tired of the immaturity

 

Thankfully we still have some very solid posters and our last remaining mets to occasionally add to the discussions. 

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I wouldn't single him out...the majority of the other mets that used to post here are gone.

 

They got tired of the immaturity

 

Thankfully we still have some very solid posters and our last remaining mets to occasionally add to the discussions. 

He was a green tagger with the power and ability to do something about it and chose to do nothing.

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Phase 8 is not a cold and snowy signal for January during strong El Ninos, as has already been pointed out. To take this further, here are a few strong Nino winters where the MJO went into phase 8 in January, look at the dates, not what you want to see, we all know what these January's were like: https://twitter.com/forecastguy/status/679379290035720192 Another: https://twitter.com/forecastguy/status/679381495681822721 And another: https://twitter.com/forecastguy/status/679381495681822721 1998, 1983, 1992

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I just remembered reading it earlier in the day and took a look. It can't hurt to notify the NWS. Hopefully, the numbers are accurate. It will be interesting to see what today's daily climate summary shows.

Not fixed in the report. It has 53 occurring 7 minutes before recording 55.

http://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=NWS&issuedby=NYC&product=CLI&format=txt&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=off

It's clearly wrong.

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Phase 8 is not a cold and snowy signal for January during strong El Ninos, as has already been pointed out. To take this further, here are a few strong Nino winters where the MJO went into phase 8 in January, look at the dates, not what you want to see, we all know what these January's were like: https://twitter.com/forecastguy/status/679379290035720192 Another: https://twitter.com/forecastguy/status/679381495681822721 And another: https://twitter.com/forecastguy/status/679381495681822721 1998, 1983, 1992

well 83 had a huge blizzard in Feb, and March 92 had a couple storms, but 98....none of those years had the freakish warmth  we are seeing now, which I am hearing from scientists on the radio is a result of El Nino being enhanced by climate change. My worry is that these kinds if winters will become more common, which is what seems to be in the offing. People in the area seem to be enjoying the warm temps but I for one find this creepy and perturbing. And really, I kinda doubt we will see much wintry precip this year, because I have lived through the years you cite, and many others, and I have seen how meh winters following warmer Decembers usually work out ( the operative word here is usually, so folks I don't wanna hear again about last year ) but what we are seeing here is not the garden variety mild December, but something unprecedented and frankly, disturbing....

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Not fixed in the report. It has 53 occurring 7 minutes before recording 55.

http://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=NWS&issuedby=NYC&product=CLI&format=txt&version=1&glossary=1&highlight=off

It's clearly wrong.

I saw there were no changes. However, I haven't received a reply from the NWS either, and I usually receive a reply to my e-mails. So, we'll see what happens later.

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well 83 had a huge blizzard in Feb, and March 92 had a couple storms, but 98....none of those years had the freakish warmth  we are seeing now, which I am hearing from scientists on the radio is a result of El Nino being enhanced by climate change. My worry is that these kinds if winters will become more common, which is what seems to be in the offing. People in the area seem to be enjoying the warm temps but I for one find this creepy and perturbing. And really, I kinda doubt we will see much wintry precip this year, because I have lived through the years you cite, and many others, and I have seen how meh winters following warmer Decembers usually work out ( the operative word here is usually, so folks I don't wanna hear again about last year ) but what we are seeing here is not the garden variety mild December, but something unprecedented and frankly, disturbing....

ENSO background is part of it. Big contributions from the strat this year however

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