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Met Winter Banter


dmillz25

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lol, you know when it comes to you and your history of screaming ,  it hard to tell . 

 

We are heading back to slightly above N in early Jan . There is nothing in the Euro or GFS ensembles guidance that says otherwise. 

:lmao:

Folks need to keep in mind we don't need -10 temps to get a snow event in January.

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Did you miss the Euro and GFS ensembles ? 5 days of plus 1c with the ridge on WC vs a ridge in the E a trough in the W and plus 15 .

That`s the same pattern to you ?

We will be stepping down, which is obvious since we can't stay at these ridiculous departures forever, but it's going to be a long process.

I have Jan at +6 and Feb at +1. BN temps and chances of snow are unlikely to occur until the last week of Jan but moreso Feb.

I would like to see the Nino gradually weaken to give us a better shot at wintry weather Feb/March.

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We will be stepping down, which is obvious since we can't stay at these ridiculous departures forever, but it's going to be a long process.

I have Jan at +6 and Feb at +1. BN temps and chances of snow are unlikely to occur until the last week of Jan but moreso Feb.

I would like to see the Nino gradually weaken to give us a better shot at wintry weather Feb/March.

 

 

1.That alone has to denote a pattern charge .

 

You go from plus 15 to plus 2 in early Jan that`s a pattern change .  I keep reading there is no change coming , the guidance says otherwise .

For early Jan with a ridge on the WC and N temps . That`s a 180 from this plus 13 month with a ridge parked over your head.  . 

 

 

gfs-ens_z500a5d_us_1.png

gfs-ens_z500a5d_us_3.png

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they never looked all that great to begin with. serves you right for wishcasting

Huge +EPO now showing up on the long range ensembles and a strong AK/Bering Sea vortex. As far as the MJO, the Nino standing wave has been there (phase 8 area) since early November, so how would MJO propagation into an already long standing Nino forcing wave force a major pattern change? Visual: https://twitter.com/tombo82685/status/679287657424363520
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Huge +EPO now showing up on the long range ensembles and a strong AK/Bering Sea vortex. As far as the MJO, the Nino standing wave has been there (phase 8 area) since early November, so how would MJO propagation into an already long standing Nino forcing wave force a major pattern change? Visual: https://twitter.com/tombo82685/status/679287657424363520

 

 

Yep I see your point .

post-7472-0-83081800-1450811311_thumb.pn

post-7472-0-83466100-1450811395_thumb.pn

post-7472-0-76848100-1450811436_thumb.pn

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I know some people actually like the warm weather and that is completely understandable, but some are also trolling for some sad attempt at reverse psychology on the weather (never understood that in the least bit), but its getting to the point that it just downright unbearable and really removes all desire to engage in any kind of discussion on some of the other threads.  

 

I know the "pattern change" is still in the long range, but I'm pretty sure everyone here understands that its warm, its going to get warmer, and December into the first ten days of January is completely shot. However, repeating the same things over and over again (ncforecaster style in the Patricia thread) is just not needed. 

 

At this point I don't want the pattern change just for a shot at snow and cold or whatever, but I just want normal discussions to take place again about actual meteorology. 

 

</rant_over>

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Earlier, someone posted in one of the NYC threads that NYC's reported minimum temperature of 53° might be suspect.

 

As the last three 6-hour periods have shown a minimum figure that is exactly 2° below the listed hourly figures, I've e-mailed Upton out of an abundance of caution. Between hour figures might well have come out 2° below the shown hourly readings. Personally, I'm not yet sure there is an issue, but thought I'd send the matter to NWS just to be on the safe side.

 

NYCTemperatures.jpg

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Nittany I THINK the CMC is missing the MJO . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ECMF_phase_MANOM_51m_full.gif

 

CANM_phase_20m_full.gif

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the problem with your MJO argument.  In ENSO filtered MJO events (those years where we have Jan ENSO 3.4 anomalies >1 degree above normal) both phase 8 and phase 1 are both positively correlated to above normal temps in the northeast.  So, if you're arguing more of a phase 8 look to it, you're actually arguing for more warmth in the northeast.  That's actually reflected pretty well in the Euro ENS today, which had a +3 to +5 anomaly painted over the northeast as a mean for the 11-15 day period.

 

Worse yet, the phase 1 composites argue even more mild weather nationally, particularly across the northern tier.

 

We're certainly not going to be able to sustain +30 degree warmth, but whether we're even able to get back to seasonable conditions for longer than a 1-2 day stretch at a time in early Jan is absolutely up for debate.  

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Let's be honest here. The cold and snow will eventually be here for now we have to enjoy this warm weather... I personally don't like it, I don't think it's healthy and I become very annoyed by all the humidity and warmth especially this time of the year. It's supposed to be cold and snowy but lately I feel like winters don't really start until mid January. You know what does suck, starting today, daytime starts getting longer but still plenty of winter to go I just hate we don't really see an end in sight to this warmth besides a few models showing some signs of it. I'm optimistic that we'll get some surprise snowstorm in the next two weeks.

Edit: this is most likely a backloaded winter

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If you guys truly want a pattern flip, your best bet is going to be blocking developing somewhere along the line.  The problem, is that in a year like this, it's generally a better and safer assumption to assume later warming at the strat, later flip or weakening of the positive AO.  The Pacific is going to have a tough time delivering the goods with minimal Arctic air to work with.

 

 

Anyway, that's my contribution for the day.  Take it easy folks and have a lovely holiday season.

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Here's the problem with your MJO argument.  In ENSO filtered MJO events (those years where we have Jan ENSO 3.4 anomalies >1 degree above normal) both phase 8 and phase 1 are both positively correlated to above normal temps in the northeast.  So, if you're arguing more of a phase 8 look to it, you're actually arguing for more warmth in the northeast.  That's actually reflected pretty well in the Euro ENS today, which had a +3 to +5 anomaly painted over the northeast as a mean for the 11-15 day period.

 

Worse yet, the phase 1 composites argue even more mild weather nationally, particularly across the northern tier.

 

We're certainly not going to be able to sustain +30 degree warmth, but whether we're even able to get back to seasonable conditions for longer than a 1-2 day stretch at a time in early Jan is absolutely up for debate.  

 

 

N 850 anomalies give me plus 3 to 5 @ 2M? 

 

Are your EC ensembles diff ? 

 

Phase 8 -1 are AN in Jan ? 

 

combined_image.png

post-7472-0-21309700-1450813054_thumb.pn

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If you want to know what I'm referencing, here's what MJO phase 8 (Nino background) look like at the surface:

 

CW2j3SRXAAA0NpP.png

 

 

How does this stack up against rest of the basin .

I have never seen this , so I am curious as to why all the ensembles now got to a trough in the means with this look 

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N 850 anomalies give me plus 3 to 5 @ 2M? 

 

Are your EC ensembles diff ? 

 

Phase 8 -1 are AN in Jan ? 

 

 

 

Yes, normal anomalies at 850 can lead to slight aboves at the surface.  Especially with little in the way of appreciable snowcover (below normal snow cover, therefore more absorbed solar radiation at the surface due to bare ground having a lower albedo than snowcover).

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